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I Torch You! It’s Raining Offence and Political Correctness Here! YAOI LOVE!!

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First let me congratulate Rainy here for being the first to slam this site as a hotbed of political incorrectness, subculture discrimination and racial abuse. It’s a lot more fun to reply to her than say, writing the Saya evolution post. So much fun that I decided to make it a full post so she’ll get her time in the spotlight.

It seems a bit childish but it’s all in good fun. Don’t worry I have no hatred! WORLD PEACE!! PANCHIRA!! MUNECHIRA!! BUKKAKE!!


Lucky L! Wheee.

Let’s first take a look at the past and see the conversations I have had with Rainy. Totally unedited for spelling lol.

On the post of Now I know why Otaku use dSLRs. I Fell in Love at the Cosfest.”, Rainy on the 10th of July, 2006 at 2:54 pm, commented on my apparent loose and discriminatory use of the term “FAT YAOI GIRLS.”
 
She said, “‘fat yaoi girls’ huh? I do not read yaoi but I must say this perhaps deliberate misconception is quite offensive to BL girls. You may find enjoying BL and yaoi objectionable, yet you have your lolita-complex, (which can be construed as borderline pedophilia quite easily.) maid-complex that casts women in subservient roles, and other fetishes too many to name, yet seldom do fangirls accuse you (and legions of men who have similar tastes) of being “fat” and typecast you in other negative steretypes.
 
It is amusing to note that you seem to think “HOT GOTH LOLI CHICKs” are superior to “yaoi girls”, kindly present some concret evidence in form of real life experiences with those two types of girl please. (That is assuming you have ever interacted with a member of the female species besides fantasizing about them through anime and figurines) Next time should you re-enforce this stereotype intentionally or unintentionally, beware of the wrath of fangirls.”
 
And at July 10th, 2006 at 6:12 pm I respond.
 
“Rainy: Good of you to come up with something to talk about here. Sure, we could always go all politically correct and be sensitive but I see the FYG, along with the Narutard, MoeOtaku etc as just types of people I don’t want to hang out with.

In case you haven’t been following the scene, yaoi alone is not frowned upon. Nor are fat girls. It’s the rabid, frothing, psychotic ones who plague anime conventions that people scoff at. Take for example, lolicon. No one frowns on lolicons. Except when they go overboard. That applies to FYGs too. I don’t have double standards. I hate overlyMoe-loving Otaku just as much as FYG. In fact, I hate males more because they don’t have tits (other than man tits which don’t count).

And who doesn’t think HOT GOTH LOLI CHICKs are superior to yaoi girls is delusional. At least in terms of physical appeal. And yes I do have real life experience with members of the non-penile sex so I can for sure say that. Well, when the makeup comes off the goths, they probably look just as bad but that’s out of point. What is important is, they are hot at these events. Luckily, the event I went to was quite nice and there weren’t obnoxious YFGs. There were however tonnes of loser guys.

Btw I don’t like maid. I like Saya cosplayers.”

I decided my reply was enough at that time to fuel an argument. And true enough, like all civic-minded watchdog agency wannabes, she duly obliges.

Rainy replies at Jul 11th, 2006 at 5:58 am, pointing out that I generalise FYGs as YGs. 

“’And who doesn’t think HOT GOTH LOLI CHICKs are superior to yaoi girls is delusional.’ General concensus about this has not yet been reached, I am voicing dissenting opinion right here on your blog, and my sanity is completely intact. You are too hasty to jump to conclusions you deen to be right by anecdotal evidence. I am afraid you are missing the point here, what tickled me off is that since you harbor an aversion to yaoi girls, (that suggests the whole community of fangirls who like BL in general) you make no distinction between the ones who enjoy their healthy dose of BL and the rabid fangirls who are on the extreme far end of spectrum. Simply, you lump together fangirls (admit it, fangirls are more prone to take a liking to BL than fanboys) into an unbecomig stereotype: fat yaoi girls. And I think that is an ugly insult to fangirls in general. Being one, of course I am quite indignant at this unjust accusation.
 
I am not raising an unreasonable tantrum at your persoanl judgement about very rabid fangirls. For I dislike the “rabid, frothing, psychotic ones (fangirls) who plague anime conventions that people scoff at” as much as you do. Love with moderation and restraint, yet the truely rabid ones are without an ounce of self-control. But I’d like to point out that just because you dislike a small faction of the BL fangirl community doesn’t justify you to publicly belittle the community to which the rabid ones belong to. It is not about adhering to rule of political correctness, it is about dosing out sarcasm and disapproval to those who truly deserve it, while avoiding typecasting the whole diverse community to which they belong into a negative stereotype which cannot be further from truth.”

This morning, before I headed off to work at my Politically-Correct News Office, I did a quick writeback. Jul 11th, 2006 at 7:42 am.

“You meant ‘Ticked’ right? But anyway, you are the one jumping to conclusions here by claiming I lump everyone together. Aren’t you the typical sort that just reads stuff wanting or waiting to be offended? The reason I don’t talk about normal fan girls is precisely that. They are too normal and are more or less regular people. And you think just because I don’t talk about them I lump them in with fat yaoi girls.
 
Funny how you claim I belittle the community, how about you go check out Ashley’s Tainted blog and bring your silly defensive arguments over there and see what a fellow BL fangirl has to say.

Perhaps you’ll be satisfied if I add a disclaimer after every FYG, like FYG (Please not that not all Yaoi girls are fat and fangirls and those lacking self-restraint are just a small proportion of the overall population). I don’t see how I am referring to the rest of the “BL” community by saying FYG. It’s like saying ‘Saccharomyces Ceravisiae or whatever is integral to the winemaking process’ and you jump on it and accuse of me saying all micro-organisms make wine. You, are obviously that very sort of reader that is so prevalent especially in the “adult” community, who reads news just to get offended.

And as exemplified by your other comment. Everyone knows black men have thick lips in general. This is quite an obvious sign that you are just reading to be offended.”

As for that comment I was referring to in the last para, here it is.

On the post of “The Evolution of Otonashi Saya”, Rainy at Jul 11th, 2006 at 6:09 am, felt that I was a racist.
 
“’With a pair of hideous pig tails and black man lips…’ Black man lips, I see…
This is the very epitome of political incorrect expression, NAACP will be after you soon.”

I was laughing away at her latent (or maybe not) desire to be offended by everything and at Jul 11th, 2006 at 8:32 am, said, “Perhaps if you actually understand the acronyms you put out… N stands for National. Perhaps if you read more and offend yourself less, you’ll have realised I’m not from the place.
Lol my yellow man eyes are even smaller now, smiling at this.”

And at Jul 11th, 2006 at 1:41 pm, Rainy responded.

"I am quite tolerant and not overly-sensitive as you tried to unreasonably paint me to be. No idea who this Ashley person is since she is no great celebrity.

Regarding my “silly defensive arguments”: “you are the one jumping to conclusions here by claiming I lump everyone together.” (By everyone I assume you are referring to fangirls, fat or non-fat.) Oh really? Am I really pointing out your mistake without an iota of reason?

If you would like to pick something undesirable to contrast against the “hot loli chicks”, why did you specifically designate yaoi girls and only yaoi girls as fat? Your choices are numerous: Ranging from maids, loli chicks, (Is there a rule that dictates that loli girls are hot? No.) sis-con lesbians to nerdy fanboys, homosexuals and heterosexuals. Why only yaoi fangirls are fat?

Because in your mind, you really believe that yaoi fangirls and to a lesser extent fangirls who for the most part read BL and yaoi are fat. And who are you to belittle fangirls in this manner?

Regarding the “black men have thick lips”: Yes, everyone do know black men have thicks lips in general, this is an established fact. But you, by equating Saya with black men lips as ugly, tag people of African descent who tend to have thicks lips as physically inferior.

Judging from your archival posts, you seem to be a Singaporean of Chinese descent. You may dismiss the insensitive passing mention of peple of African descent as a light joke, yet little do you understand its significance. The following passage should give you a dose of your own medicine:

Renton of Eureka 7 is about to embark on possibly the greatest adventure of his life, overall he has a likable personality, but at 5′4, he is just too short for my taste, pity he is built like the typical Asian man."


I wish I was pretty like Itsuki.

Ok, and now for the follow-up. I’m so having fun with this.

Worldwide, there are people who read with the sole intention of offending themselves. Even newspapers, who have levels of editors to weed out any potentially offensive material, suffer from the onslaught of such “readers”.

Every little politically “incorrect” word has to be picked on and twisted as they feel the need to defend others and create a world where everyone’s all sugary and nice. Note that such people will always begin their text with the phrase, “I’m not part of the group involved..” just to show their impartiality and superiority. Why superiority? Because they exist on a high moral plane where discrimination, generalisation, stereotyping, poverty and AIDs do not exist.

“I do not read yaoi but I must say this perhaps deliberate misconception is quite offensive to BL girls.” See what I mean? Rainy claims she isn’t a yaoi girl yet feels the need to defend them for the sake of justice and honour. While I’m all for Naruto-ish sense of justice, it’s plain silly to claim you are not part of the group and then take your imagined perspective of said group. In other words, it’s like thinking, “Oh man, maid fetish showing maids in frilly dresses and saying ‘Yes my master!’ Real maids will take offence so I must correct this.”

Are you sure non-idiotic yaoi girls will take offence when the term Fat Yaoi Girl is used? Especially when the term is so commonplace with its meaning defined as the overzealous, panting, fangirling, screaming yaoi obsessed fanatic, rather than actual obesity. Perhaps horizontally-challenged yaoi-loving yet rational females would take issue but they themselves understand that it’s the blacksheep ruining their name and not the general public.

Personally, when normal (non-otaku) people flame otaku for being all lost in fantasy and sicko-moe-loving, I don’t get all sweaty and defensive but I understand why they come to that conclusion. It’s the small percentage of black sheep that causes this misconception, as you already know, but so what? I don’t care as long as I’m not one of the black sheep. Surely a lot of people think like me and that’s why nobody gets offended when loose generalisations are bandied about.

The anime community is one of the most open in terms of mindsets. Majority of us do not even mind hardcore (by mainstream standards) ideas like incest, lolicon, maid, boy-love, girl-love, anal sex, tentacles, transgender, cross dressing etc and being stereotyped is probably just about the least of everyone’s concerns. We are here because we have survived and can overcome blatant stereotyping. You don’t have to defend anyone. If we all cared about these, we would’ve done something more mainstream.

“You may find enjoying BL and yaoi objectionable, yet you have your lolita-complex, (which can be construed as borderline pedophilia quite easily.) maid-complex that casts women in subservient roles, and other fetishes too many to name, yet seldom do fangirls accuse you (and legions of men who have similar tastes) of being “fat” and typecast you in other negative steretypes.”

This is of course a blinkered one sided view. As one other article points out, males have never been significantly judged in terms of looks. But the men do get stereotyped just as much. Note hikikomori, lolicon, siscon etc. Think of otaku and what’s the first impression? Saliviating backpacked fat sweaty bespectacled men in ugly t-shirts snapping away with big cameras while holding big bags of merchandise. Is that not a stereotype? This silly siege mentality of some females are truly a nuisance that should be discarded for the sake of your own progression.

“It is amusing to note that you seem to think “HOT GOTH LOLI CHICKs” are superior to “yaoi girls”, kindly present some concret evidence in form of real life experiences with those two types of girl please. (That is assuming you have ever interacted with a member of the female species besides fantasizing about them through anime and figurines)”

I’ll set up a poll to see if Hot Goth Loli chicks are superior to yaoi girls, if you want some hard data. And perhaps through the following comments. You are the one who dragged normal yaoi girls into this discussion and not once before were they involved. It was the subspecies, the Fat Yaoi Girl, who was in the spotlight.

And thanks for the personal attack. It was my only interaction with a female in my life. You are so tsun tsun. Unfortunately, as some of the other readers here know, your (ironically stereotypical) claim is incorrect.

“Next time should you re-enforce this stereotype intentionally or unintentionally, beware of the wrath of fangirls.”

Like yourself? Or are you just representing them like a good old internet lawyer? Nobody escapes the wrath of fangirls, not even themselves. And just admit you’re a fangirl. Your pretence is getting tiring.

“You are too hasty to jump to conclusions you deen to be right by anecdotal evidence. I am afraid you are missing the point here, what tickled me off is that since you harbor an aversion to yaoi girls, (that suggests the whole community of fangirls who like BL in general) you make no distinction between the ones who enjoy their healthy dose of BL and the rabid fangirls who are on the extreme far end of spectrum.”

Are you a fan of Studio Deen? Anyway, anecdotal evidence of like, the world? Sorry, I fail to find anyone who likes Fat Yaoi Girls, not even themselves. I personally first came across them 5 years ago and it was a scarring experience. More recently, there have been many reports worldwide of their obnoxious behaviour which I’ll link at the end of this post.

Normal yaoi girls, as I said, are normal and should not be confused for this mutation. You keep harping on the fact that nobody differentiates FYG from NYG. But that is only because everyone KNOWS as a fact that they are different. Do we explain Newton’s laws each time we drop something? Do we state the definition of tsundere and itadakimasu each time we use it? This is not an edited newspaper and we don’t cater to outsiders who don’t understand the meaning behind the lingo used. The term “Fat Yaoi Girl” has been standardised as a derogatory one used for people that fit the stereotype. It does not concern normal yaoi girls whatsoever and the fact that I dare to say the words “normal” and “yaoi” in the same sentence is evidence of my open-mindedness. Is yaoi ever normal outside?

“But I’d like to point out that just because you dislike a small faction of the BL fangirl community doesn’t justify you to publicly belittle the community to which the rabid ones belong to. It is not about adhering to rule of political correctness, it is about dosing out sarcasm and disapproval to those who truly deserve it, while avoiding typecasting the whole diverse community to which they belong into a negative stereotype which cannot be further from truth.”

I guess the most basic point would be your misinterpreting the usage of FYG. Since that is clarified, your stance seems to be similar to mine. In other words, you are picking on the actual choice of words. How about I start using "Rotund Yaoi Girl", "Obese Yaoi Girl", "Undesirable Yaoi Girl" or "Meaty Yaoi Girl"?

“’With a pair of hideous pig tails and black man lips…’ Black man lips, I see…
This is the very epitome of political incorrect expression, NAACP will be after you soon.”

Can’t get jokes about assumed phenotypical features? From a country whose MTV goes “Hey nigga” or whatever every 30 seconds? The US is quite the diverse place lol. And I fail to see how the “NAACP”, which I had to google because I did not even know of this organisation’s existence, would be concerned about the assumed morphological features of their nation’s people. I mean, if I made racist jokes with malicious intent, I am a bastard and deserves to be crucified but this? Hahahaha.

But seriously, if anyone was offended by that, I’ll apologise. But grudgingly with a smirk and thinking that you’re one big tard.

"If you would like to pick something undesirable to contrast against the “hot loli chicks”, why did you specifically designate yaoi girls and only yaoi girls as fat? Your choices are numerous: Ranging from maids, loli chicks, (Is there a rule that dictates that loli girls are hot? No.) sis-con lesbians to nerdy fanboys, homosexuals and heterosexuals. Why only yaoi fangirls are fat?

Because in your mind, you really believe that yaoi fangirls and to a lesser extent fangirls who for the most part read BL and yaoi are fat. And who are you to belittle fangirls in this manner?"

This is where I’m totally convinced Rainy’s identity is a yaoi fangirl. Her siege mentality gets really strong here. But to explain why I specifically designate yaoi girls, please note that I went to the Cosfest with expectations of seeing a horde of Fat Yaoi Girls, as a lot of my peers both on the internet and in real life have warned me about. And I did not see any Fat Yaoi Girl there, so I was pleased. The End. I did see a lot of HOT GOTH LOLI CHICKS and these were a lot better than the expected FYGs, so I used it as a contrast device. That explains the choice and it isn’t because of an underlying hatred of yaoi as you claim.

And as I have said a lot of times, Fat Yaoi Girl is just a catch phrase. You are being silly when you try to read my mind. Because you fail. So what’s your beef (lol) with the word "fat"?

"Regarding the “black men have thick lips: Yes, everyone do know black men have thicks lips in general, this is an established fact. But you, by equating Saya with black men lips as ugly, tag people of African descent who tend to have thicks lips as physically inferior.

Judging from your archival posts, you seem to be a Singaporean of Chinese descent. You may dismiss the insensitive passing mention of peple of African descent as a light joke, yet little do you understand its significance. The following passage should give you a dose of your own medicine:

Renton of Eureka 7 is about to embark on possibly the greatest adventure of his life, overall he has a likable personality, but at 5′4, he is just too short for my taste, pity he is built like the typical Asian man."

This is where you proved my point exactly. Renton (actually you should be more concerned with the fact he’s 12) is too short for you like the typical Asian. So to prove that black man lips are a gross racial slur, I’m supposed to feel really insulted about the typical Asian man remark? Yeah Asians are short, have small dicks and have tiny eyes. So what? I’m not offended by the generalisation. If it’s untrue for me, I just laugh and revel in the fact that I’m a superior breed of Asian. If it’s true, then it’s the damn truth. Just like how black men don’t get offended by their own lips.

Ok you have taken everything out of context so I will enlighten your narrow mind on the meaning of that Saya phrase. Think of a sweet Asian girl, with fair skin. Now slap lips which should belong on a typical black man, onto her face. Is that ugly? Yes. Does that mean black man lips are ugly? NO. But I do want to point out that I think Asians are hotter than black people. So what? It’s just a preference. Am I supposed to pretend I like black men lips? I don’t see how women have to pretend to like small Asian dicks. This politically correct environment has gotten out of hand.

So to conclude, I had fun and thank you Rainy for the insightful discussion. You helped me get past a slow day at work.


Boylove forever!

Now let’s point all readers to several links. 

The fangirl who hates FYGs, Ashley.

The possible populariser of the FYG craze, Jpmeyer.

Anime Bento’s take on the issue.

The Anime Blog’s post.
 

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Click now to visit J-List!
Buy Some Artificial Vaginas now!

81 Responses to “I Torch You! It’s Raining Offence and Political Correctness Here! YAOI LOVE!!”  

  1. 1 Alex 26 comments

    Man, that line about micro-organisms and wine got me good.

  2. 2 Tsubaki 408 comments

    Okaay. I never ever want to get involve in a flame war with you.

    tjhan, while i truly enjoyed this entry (we all love angry flaming post), i feel that your attempt to getting her to realize that she’s just merely digging a hole for her ownself will only lead her to become more narrow-minded to your points. High chance that she wont back down from this retort.

    And since when did we asian find it offensive when we get generalized as yellow skinned, short, and small eyes chinks? I’m sure the African Americans couldn’t care less about their black lips as much as we do with our “supposely” small dicks.

    Lmao.

  3. 3 kokanaden 174 comments

    After reading through and through and through, I still don’t get what the FUCK the argument is about.

    Is freedom of opinion dead today? How is expressing a preference for hot goth loli chicks over fat yaoi girls wrong? When a father fondly and humbly terms his son a “brat” while talking to a friend, does it mean that the son is really a MOTHERFUCKER? I’m being very crude here, because I’m pissed off with the self-righteousness of people who nitpick. You want to nitpick? Go work in a bird’s nest extraction shop and pick the feathers and micro-organisms out from bird spittle then. Or maybe, start a manual follicle by follicle hair removal service.

    I am an Asian myself, and the truth is, I don’t blame the guy/girl who expressed what you call a fucked-up opinion. He does not really like short guys, while I do not condone nit-picking, so are we to be strung up and shot? It IS a fact that Chinese/Asian men are shorter (both height-wise and penis-wise), so I see nothing wrong at all. So, if a someone comments that he prefers “sweet” apples over “sour” oranges, those orchard owners should be suing the pants off this person, because he “promotes” the thinking/stereotype that oranges are inferior in taste to apples? Pure bullshit.

    In addition, Mr riuva/tripeman over here said “fat yaoi girls”, which, when dissected, refers to yaoi girls who are fat, a category within a category. In essence, he is targeting the group of people whom you and him share a common dislike for. Simple english. In addition, he mentioned “hot goth loli chicks”, he refers to those girls who look real hot when cosplaying as gothic type anime characters, which again, is a category within a category. He did not generalise that “yaoi girls are all fat”, neither did he say that “goth loli girls are all hot”. To sum up the intent of the sentence, in case you failed to read between the lines (if you understand what this means in the first place), Mr Riuva here wanted to tell his readers that the quality of people he met, especially the cosplayers, looks-wise have improved alot, and were beyond his expectations.

    In future, Rainy, if you want to nitpick, please make sure your proficiency in that particular language is good. Oh, I almost forgot, do get some help in comprehending sentences. You might want to start on elementary level literature for a start too.

    Yawn, I was expecting some argument of the highest level when tripeman sent 1Obn an email about it this morning. Instead, I was treated to this nonsense, which is worse than reading an article on the forum section of The Straits Times claiming that the use of liquid paper would save LOADS of time during national exams like the PSLE.

    P.S. In case if you are unaware, the Singapore Government is even stricter than the NAACP when it comes to racism, but the weird thing is, why is the site still running?

  4. 4 kokanaden 174 comments

    Oh Tsubaki, apparently Western men and Africans love Asian girls, because they have small tight vaginas. I suppose that is stereotypical and should piss of alot of SPGs too?

    Less apparent but still existent, are the group of European/American/African girls who like to get tickled by buys with small dicks.

    With the two statements I just made, according to “Rainy’s” Theorem, I should be the most hated man in Asia in a week’s time, and a manhunt will be on to find me by the end of the week. My comments should be hotly debated over national newspapers, radio and TV, and because i am still serving my National Service, I’ll be sent to the Detention Barracks when caught, or be sent to Guatanamo Bay (and be allowed to watch delayed telecasts of Singapore matches at during World Cup 2010), be locked up forever while they try to make me recite the 7 SAF core values and the Singapore Pledge by heart.

    In any case, sweet apples taste better than sour oranges. I think even more people hate me now.

    *shrugs*

  5. 5 helspectre 47 comments

    Well done. The pride of our little nation.

    Its evident that while both of your are fighting on grounds of stereotypes, the seriousness and the extent to view both of you view the situation is totally different.

    hasty generalisation, dirty roping of other groups in, miscontrued notions that opinions = fact.

    People are entitled to what they think, HELL, THEY CAN EVEN BE RACIST.

    As long as they don’t interrupt the peace of the society, its ok. whatsmore its just a distaste for a select group of people who believe in the skewed reproductive ritual, riddled with high chances of atherosclerosis, hypertension, diabetes, eating disorders, bulimia, and many other lifestyle related problems.

    so while we entertain ourselves with cute loli girls and distaste for FYG, continue your entertainment and hatred for us. we don’t care. Just don’t flame blogs for posting their views. Vision is selective, and understand that opnions exist, just who are more frank and who aren’t.

  6. 6 Tsubaki 408 comments

    P.S. In case if you are unaware, the Singapore Government is even stricter than the NAACP when it comes to racism, but the weird thing is, why is the site still running?

    3 local bloggers jailed, fine and made to do community service for writing something racist on their blogs.

    Will tjjan become the 4th? Only time will tell.

  7. 7 T_T||| 451 comments

    If he does, he’ll be the first aniblogger to be screwed by the law. Guiness World Records!

  8. 8 helspectre 47 comments

    the law will not bother with FYG. They’re anti racist, but nothing about anti anti sizist.

  9. 9 jpmeyer 68 comments

    Wait, does Singapore have a 300 year history of enslaving, oppressing, and dehumanizing people of African descent? THAT is the reason why we find racisism unacceptable in America now. It served as a way to facilitate those ideas.

    The other problem, however is that people try to go too far in terms of “fixing” and thus deny any sort of difference between people of different races even when differences do exist. While there are plenty of examples of difference, both real and imagined being used to discriminate (imagined difference being something like using phrenology to “prove” that people of African descent aren’t human, real difference would be like using their larger-than-average penis size to paint them as sexual threats in the competition for white women), there’s also the problem of trying to eliminate difference because it generally uses white/middle-class/bourgeos as some kind of standard.

    And besides, it’s obvious that Tripeman is tj_han’s way of compensating for having a tiny Asian man penis. Oh yeah, that’s another thing. The tiny Asian man penis is like the flipside of the African man horsecock: rather than him being a threat for white women like the sexually ravenous mandingo (who is assumed to be sexually ravenous because of the horsecock), the feminized Asian man is sexually inert (because of his tiny, pathetic wang) and thus those exotic Oriental beauties with their sideways vaginas are ripe for the plundering by the masculine West.

    In conclusion, lol ethnocentrism lol.

    Actually knowing about this kind of stuff rules!

  10. 10 tj_han 893 comments

    Well, other than the fact this place is multi-racial and just a couple of decades ago suffered massive racial riots and violence? Nobody is racist here and no one also points fingers accusingly at the slightest joke.

    BUT THIS IS NOT THE MAIN POINT.

    And there are plenty of Asian women to go around. Let’s all share. After all, it’s the most populous continent and is ever increasing in people numbers.

  11. 11 Hinano 53 comments

    the only beef i have with yaoi girls in general, is not their fat or their rabidness, but their l33t attitude. some of them think that YAOI is better than HET which freaking pisses me off. (example: Naruto x Sasuke is teh cannon! No way is Naruto EVER gonna end up with SAKURA!) And in places like oekaki communities, if you don’t draw 2 guys humping each other or making out, no one comments on your work. So the stupid yaoi fangirls, be them fat or rabid or not, are fucking obnoxious, and the chick who is arguing with you is no doubt one of them.

  12. 12 Ashley 8 comments

    “No idea who this Ashley person is since she is no great celebrity.”

    Oh ho ho, well maybe she would know of my greatness if she would stop scouring the internet trying to cleanse the world of injustice with her anal-retentive, Hitler-youth ways. Joking aisde, this girl’s a real trip. Way to pull out the race card in your campaign to end FYG discrimination there, m’dear.

  13. 13 Zero-Hour 7 comments

    A VERY interesting read. MEATY!

  14. 14 HalcyonDF 50 comments

    the entire arguement had me in deep thoughts for hours.

    After many hours of self-arguing, I have arrived at a conclusion:

    LOL

  15. 15 quitacet 7 comments

    to be fair to tjhan though the observed sample set at cosfest v was in fact relatively more bmi-challenged than the SG norm. IF the population at cosfest v is a representative sample (which it should be as a flagship event even though it is a single data point) THEN generalization may not be incorrect.

  16. 16 tj_han 893 comments

    Quitacet: I wish you would stop using econs terms needlessly. Haha. Anyway, I didn’t think the girls there were fat.

    Besides, I have this set of nifty optical filters that exclude all the undesirable sights like guys, otaku and obese cosplayers. So it doesn’t matter how many bad ones there were, I only see and remember the good ones.

  17. 17 Randall Fitzgerald 62 comments

    “their healthy dose of BL”

    A few comments here, on this part. Then I will read the rest of it. Waify faggots fucking one another is not attractive to anyone. You skanks are all about women’s rights, but at the cost of the rights of other people. Way to go. And the fact that you’d spend so much time on this means that you’re fat, ugly, and probably a sabby vaginaed lesbian.

    Secondly, stop calling it “BL.” Ok? I am so fucking sick of people coming up with their little avoidant ways of saying things. We call it loli and we put it right the fuck out there. BL is just a non-commital way of saying you like watching dudes fuck, animated though they be. It’s yaoi, or it’s shonenai. Fuck. Fatty.

    Back to the article.

    “But you, by equating Saya with black men lips as ugly, tag people of African descent who tend to have thicks lips as physically inferior.”

    Is this bitch absolutely fucking serious here? My god. I need to move out of this country.

    Still, at least I learned that females are a different species. YAY!

    But in all seriousness, I wholly agree with TJ here. For what it’s worth, these things need to be said and people need to stop all the bullshit and eggshell walking. I think people need to wake up and realize that stereotypes didn’t make themselves up and that they’re based on logical groupings that your brain makes. Big lips? Ok, that is one of the traits that my brain will now use to identify black people. Baggy clothes? The idea that they tend to commit more crime (which I’ve been told is racist despite the fact that it’s TRUE…), often times violent ones. These are things my brain will use to judge how I should react to a member of this mental grouping when I see them without having to ask the mother fucker for his life history.

    By the contrast, if I see a well dressed black guy, I will take his manner of carrying himself into account, perhaps his amount of bling, and there’s another group. It works the same with white people. If I see a guy in a wife beater and cutoff jean shorts, he’s white trash. Do I care to ask? No, I just react to his presence the same way I would to any other white trash.

    These things are valid and they are useful, especially for avoiding danger. Trenchcoated white males should be avoided, just like any monkey-faced nigger with baggy pants and a sports jersey. And that’s fine because you don’t HAVE to like those people, or interact with them, or be nice to them. But people like Rainy like to run off at their fat, shit-filled, hypocrite mouths and spit the same venom they recoil from. And just as a matter of record, I have never offended a gay person I knew with a gay joke, but I’ve offended about 20 of their fat, worthless, friendless, shiftless friends. They’re the first to speak up and the last to shut their mouths. It makes me sick.

    Thanks for the thoughts, TJ.

    P.S. I didn’t read any of the other comments because any of the long ones looked annoying.

  18. 18 Rainy 9 comments

    By assuming a forced nonchalant attitude in form of amusing images coupled with half-witted sarcasm and repeated making fun of a typo in my comments you managed to reduce the whole issue into looking like nothing more than an overly-picky fangirl who jumps on and attacks any politically incorrect expressions. But then, any critical reader who has a mind of s/he own would scrutinize the issue and look past this facade of silly comedy you slathered on in order to sway the the argument your way. If there is a rule about constructing a truly logical argument, it is “thou shall not ridicule”: For it’s a logical fallacy that people often fall for.

    I appreciated your previous replies to my comments, holding different views we may be, but sadly, this post is choke full of this cheap gimmick that uncertainty about the value of arguing with you is begining to settle in, for it’s quite a waste of time to hold a worthwhile conversation with someone who 1. doen’t take the argument seriously. 2. has stooped down and resorted to devious mockery to get his way.
    ——————————————
    “Because they exist on a high moral plane where discrimination, generalisation, stereotyping, poverty and AIDs do not exist.” ->
    Now you are lying. I perfectly understand that discrimination, generalisation, stereotyping and poverty and AIDs exist. Kindly stop digressing to untrue and sly personal attacks and come back to matters at hand. I may be the biggest scoundrel in the world, but none of it has anything to do with my argument. And no intelligent readers with a head of their own will swallow your unfavorable depiction of my character and judge my argument’s validity based on your skewed imagination.

    “Rainy claims she isn’t a yaoi girl yet feels the need to defend them for the sake of justice and honour… it’s plain silly to claim you are not part of the group and then take your imagined perspective of said group.” ->
    Should your logic hold true, then lawyers should be of the same gender, ethnicity, social status, etc as their clients, in other words, only female lawyers should accept female clients and so on. But this’s anything but true in the real world. And it is a fact that I do not read yaoi, however, I am a fangirl and stated so my comments, a fact you conveniently forget to bring up.

    “Especially when the term (Fat yaoi girl) is so commonplace with its meaning defined as the overzealous, panting, fangirling, screaming yaoi obsessed fanatic, rather than actual obesity.”->
    THIS, is the heart of the matter, where root of the disagreement lies. You think it is okay to say fat yaoi girls because you take the community’s prevalent definition and “commonplace” use of fat yaoi girls term for granted. But have you ever paused and pondered over the reason why only yaoi girls are depicted as fat and not other groups? You did not because it is very easy believe something is true and acceptable to say when this something is reiterated with frequency and conviction. Had I belittled “fat Suzumiya fans”, I would be instantly stoned and sunk in some muddy river; the same could not be said of the “fat yaoi girl” denouncers because they now bask in an aura of immunity due to general acceptance of the term, but general acceptance doens’t equate with right. Just as at antebellum South in the US, it was completely okay to utter the “nigger” word with abandon, but we all know now it is a great insult to bestow upon people of African descent.

    It may be the tacit agreement in the community that the term “fat yaoi girls” refers only to the small faction of the yaoi girls who fit into the definition, however, underlying this narrow definition of the term is a subtle discrimination and general distaste for girls who read yaoi and BL related materials. The dislike may be unconscious, but present nevertheless. And I don’t like people overtly or subtly criticizing my hobbies and tastes unless they have a damn good reason to back up their claim, nor do I like to be typecast in the “fat yaoi girl” role, which you say is not targeted toward me and other non-fat fangirls who like BL, however the truth is anything but.

    It is wrong trying present your acceptance of unfavorable depiciton of otakus to contrast out my supposedly over-inflated group sensitivity, it is people like you who are so ingrained with the stereotypes that you can’t feel a thing when something objectionable is said of the group you belong to. Candidly speaking, I am not happy with nerdy otaku term being “bandied about”, I am an anime fan, but uninitiated folk in anime may unknowingly equate an ordinary fangirl like me with that of an otaku, that is why I don’t joke about it for I would rather not perpetuate stereotypes about the group I belong to, even it is a loosely defined.

    “The term “Fat Yaoi Girl” has been standardised as a derogatory one used for people that fit the stereotype. It does not concern normal yaoi girls whatsoever and the fact that I dare to say the words “normal” and “yaoi” in the same sentence is evidence of my open-mindedness. Is yaoi ever normal outside?” ->
    Ah, the great power of reiteration. It has been standardized and therefore is acceptable. Bottomline, If you wish to cite a type of undesirable females as a backdrop to glorify the lolita girls, kindly stop exemplifying “fat yaoi girls” as paragons of “beauty,” it is harmful to yaoi and to a lesser degree BL girls’ group image, fat or non-fat included. (I am sure some nice and sweet but more plump yaoi girl who is not rabid, frothing, and psychotic will be badly hurt by your term by the way. Is this what you want to see happening?)
    ——————————————
    “So to prove that black man lips are a gross racial slur, I’m supposed to feel really insulted about the typical Asian man remark?” ->
    Yes, you are supposed to feel insulted by the typical Asian man remark. Being an Asian myself, I do. If say I were the same gender as you are, I would feel so even more strongly. It is true that Asian men in general are short, but said plainly to my face and insinuated directly that Asians’ shortness equates undesirability is a malicious way to foster inferiority complex in Asians. Perception is reality, group images represent the rough images of individuals in the group, building a positive image of the group and bringing out the best traits in the people of the group paves a smoother and safer way to Asians to navigate the world. The same holds true for black men and other ethnicities. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

    Rainy

  19. 19 Os 54 comments

    “I don’t see how women have to pretend to like small Asian dicks.”

    Those silly women dont realize that they could transform if treated correctly. Keep on trying, women, it’ll work one day. Just like punching in the right code.

  20. 20 Randall Fitzgerald 62 comments

    I don’t see why Rainy thinks anyone will believe she’s ever been fucked. A long dick doesn’t make a satisfying experience. Technique, woman. If you just keep dreaming, one day maybe Sosuke will materialize and come make all your shinobi dreams come true.

  21. 21 Regalia 1 comment

    You know, while this may be contrary to most of the replies here, I just feel both of you have your principles and your reasons. So looking at it from either perspective, both make valid, but not necessarily good points to defend yourselves.

    I just think the issue shouldn’t have been brought up anyway. Jeez Rainy, cosplay, anime, yaoi, and hot goth chicks. It’s not God coming for a visit. Lighten up. This is fun, but it’s not healthy tjhan. You may catch something from her. =)

    I am unable to comment further as I think I may have temporary blindness from reading so goddamn many tiny words in such a small place of time. Lol.

  22. 22 Tsubaki 408 comments

    *gasp* she replies.

    with another salvo of mock intelligence. I gave up reading half way.

  23. 23 Zero-Hour 7 comments

    Whoa… More comments. More reading..BEEFY entry!

  24. 24 T_T||| 451 comments

    Rainy >> I actually wanted to post something caustic to spite tjhan but after reading your comments over and over again, I just can’t seem to find anything to side with you. In conclusion: LOL DUMBASS.

  25. 25 T_T||| 451 comments

    Rainy >> And not forgetting to mention. YOU are the kind of people that ignites racial riots. Motherfucker politically-self-rectifying-rectum racist.

  26. 26 jpmeyer 68 comments

    Man, not one person said in this thread “I’m not racist. I have a black friend”.

  27. 27 air! 5 comments

    I’m surprised that no one has posted that “The Fujoshi” picture, yet!

  28. 28 T_T||| 451 comments

    jpmeyer >> ‘cos that’s redundant?

  29. 29 tj_han 893 comments

    OK You know know? I woke up at 8.30 am, and read the comments here till 8.50. Then I realised it wasn’t 7.50 and I had work at 8.10. DAMN, I had to use a half day off.

    Now on a more serious note: Rainy, as you said, our previous correspondence was more or less acceptably mature. However I did not like how you went around scourging for “offensive” remarks, like the Saya Black Man Lips one and that in my opinion made you lose any credibility. And also the fact that you lied about your interests in the first post.

    I do not condone racism in any way and everyone please just leave this out of the matter. It is strictly about the rights and reputation of yaoi girls.

    Jpmeyer: I actually had this line at the end of my post. Ron Atkinson aka “Big Ron”, disgraced football commentator accused of racism, once retorted, “I can’t be a racist. I have eaten at the same table as black people!”

    Regalia: Hello Kira! How’s Lacus doing? World Peace.

    Now back to Rainy:

    “By assuming a forced nonchalant attitude in form of amusing images coupled with half-witted sarcasm and repeated making fun of a typo in my comments you managed to reduce the whole issue into looking like nothing more than an overly-picky fangirl who jumps on and attacks any politically incorrect expressions.”

    Hey, so you realised. I did think some of the lines were pretty funny though. Maybe you were born in a politically unstable and sensitive area and as such was educated to be very careful with your choice of words. Perhaps I am a spoilt kid used to peace and comfort, thus tending treat everything with apathy. But here’s the catch - if you really were politically sensitive and cared that much about what others say, you wouldn’t be reading/drawing gay men sex.

    To put it crudely, if you choose a certain acitivity, you have to be prepared to be implicated in its stereotypes. An ideal world where everyone realises who everyone really is and can accept who they are is only found in GUNDAM SEED DESTINY, a series no doubted worshipped by yaoi fans for their pretty male leads. In other words, when I chose to indulge in this hobby, i was prepared for the (mis)labelling but you are apparently not and that’s why go around the interweb trying to fight your cause. In a sense, admirable but purely misguided.

    If you have that much time and effort, how about you weed out those giving your kind a bad name? But here you are trying to change the mindsets of people who have the particular mindset precisely because of your black sheep.

    “THIS, is the heart of the matter, where root of the disagreement lies. You think it is okay to say fat yaoi girls because you take the community’s prevalent definition and “commonplace” use of fat yaoi girls term for granted. But have you ever paused and pondered over the reason why only yaoi girls are depicted as fat and not other groups?”

    Yeah that is the heart of this completely nonsensical and pointless argument. I read back on the posts and I fail to find one single issue that is actually substantial enough to be considered an argument.

    So will you be happy if I add the word “Fat” to every other group? And yes I have “pondered” the reason. It is because there are the very obvious and real life examples of FAT YAOI GIRLS. These exist and we have seen them around before. They are the ones who launched the whole stereotype of themselves. That is why they have the honour of being “FAT”. As for Haruhi fans, they can only be termed “rabid, moronic, bandwagon-hopping” and such because there is no one stand-out physical trait.

    “It is wrong trying present your acceptance of unfavorable depiciton of otakus to contrast out my supposedly over-inflated group sensitivity, it is people like you who are so ingrained with the stereotypes that you can’t feel a thing when something objectionable is said of the group you belong to. Candidly speaking, I am not happy with nerdy otaku term being “bandied about”, I am an anime fan, but uninitiated folk in anime may unknowingly equate an ordinary fangirl like me with that of an otaku, that is why I don’t joke about it for I would rather not perpetuate stereotypes about the group I belong to, even it is a loosely defined.”

    You have just explained your entire psyche and mindset. You care too much about what people think of you. You are Ogiue from Genshiken. You are NOT an ordinary fangirl because these do not go around campaigning for equal yaoi rights. You are in denial and afraid of being typecast. You should go out and meet more people with the same hobbies, and maybe you’ll realise what others think isn’t that important.

    What the hell is an “ordinary” fangirl? As real as a safe nuclear missile? An intelligent Randall? This ordinary fangirl statement is obviously a self-defence mechanism you erected to make yourself believe “I’m normal” when what you should be doing is embracing who you are and ignoring the naysayers.

    I accept the unfavorable depiction of otaku because a lot of it is true. But so what? Do I stop hanging around and doing our favourite stuff? No. As I said many times, you care too much about what people say. What you should be doing is keeping your own house in order - that is, cleaning up the people giving your group a bad name and making sure you don’t follow their ways. If you make an effort to not be part of the stereotype, then it doesn’t apply to you and there is no longer any issue.

    This entire “argument” can be summarised with the following conversation.

    tj: Woah Goth loli hot chick! I expected fat yaoi fangirls but this is what I get! Wooo. Saya’s hot but the movie version of her has blackman lips.

    Rainy: You hate yaoi girls! How dare you say we are all fat! (Though I’m not one and I’m just helping them.) And… you racist!

    tj: No, you aren’t all fat. It’s just a negative term to describe the bad ones. I’m not racist.

    Rainy: YES YOU HATE ALL YAOI FANGIRLS DEEP DOWN.(ok I may be a fangirl but a normal one).

    tj: No I don’t. I laugh at you!

    Rainy: YES YO DO! I know you hate yaoi girls UNCONSCIOUSLY.

    tj: No I don’t. You need help.

    Rainy: Then why say yaoi girls are fat? Why aren’t other people fat?

    tj: The most prominent group is fat. And the rest of the yaoi girls are nice people so we don’t call them fat. I don’t hate anyone.

    Rainy: YOU HATE YAOI GIRLS DEEP DOWN!

    tj: No I don’t.

  30. 30 Steven Den Beste 25 comments

    Q: How many radical feminists does it take to change a light bulb?

    A: That’s not funny!

  31. 31 jpmeyer 68 comments

    Everyone knows that “fat” is really a codeword for “annoying”. Right? Right? Oh god, what have I done?

  32. 32 kwok 1 comment

    haha I leave for Japan and in 24 hours this bullshit appears. Must have some nice page view hits.

  33. 33 T_T||| 451 comments

    “What the hell is an “ordinary” fangirl? As real as a safe nuclear missile? An intelligent Randall? ”

    GG Randall. Ikimashou!

  34. 34 Forceflow 7 comments

    Oh joy. This helped a slow day at work~ =9

    I miss the MDF and 1OBn (The only thing worth something in the SAF)

  35. 35 Rainy 9 comments

    “However I did not like how you went around scourging for “offensive” remarks, like the Saya Black Man Lips one and that in my opinion made you lose any credibility. And also the fact that you lied about your interests in the first post.” ->
    Or so you willed yourself into believing those lies. One of which being that I browse the internet to zoom in on the “offensive” remarks. The argument is the product of frustration accumulated out of being assaulted with the term Fat Yaoi Girl wherever I read, and the ridiculousness of stereotype finally shot through the roof and time is ripe for raising some awareness of the issue.

    If you think I was seeking your racially insensitive line to buttress the stereotype argument, then you are dodging the real racial issue at hand. To avoid confusion, I commented in two different posts and you only too willingly combined the two complete seperate issues into one and gave the false impression that I used the trump card known as racial issue to strengthen another different issue. Yet I should be the one to lose credibility merely because I pointed out another of your faults? How amazing. You are certainly masterful at digging six feet into ground to find a non-issue to dismiss the real issue.

    As to the alleged “lying” on my part, it is anything but a fact. Are you willing to bet your very life on the “fact” that I lied about not interested in yaoi? If you hold any hesitation about the wager, then you know, albet grudgingly, that you hold uncertainty about my interests. Furthermore, suggesting that I lied is a “fact” is in itself dishonest. And right, last time, I just do not read yaoi. Period. End of discussion. Real Fact.

    I sincerely hope that from now on you will pause and think twice about racially related issues, and most importantly, speak responsibly. (The claim that ‘I can’t be a racist. I have eaten at the same table as black people!’ is unconvincing: During early days of desegregation, many White and Black students finally managed to sit in the same classroom and receive the same education, racial tension still ran high and plenty of Whites felt no reservation and shame about show their distaste for Blacks, literally sitting the same classroom they may be.)
    ————————————————————————————
    “If you really were politically sensitive and cared that much about what others say, you wouldn’t be reading/drawing gay men sex.” ->
    Do you really understand what politically sensitive means? If you do, you wouldn’t frown upon this habit of mine “reading/drawing gay men sex.” For it’s against the law to discriminate against gays/lesbians. If you look at say, college applications fine print carefully, then you will notice they always declare that “we do not discriminate against any ethnicities, gender and sexual orientations.” That’s right. Sexual orientations are included. Now that’s just strictly politically speaking that it’s unlawful to say withhold a job from a gay person, however, de facto segregation against this populance exists but that’s another matter completely. I am not interested in debating about the rights of homosexuals, for that is unrelated to the argument I am making.

    By saying that I enjoy “reading/drawing gay men sex” demonstrate that you do not have even the very basic understanding of fangirls who enjoy shounen ai. See what I mean by lumping fangirls together? You have not even fundamental knowledge about the community, and you are well-versed in anime fandom, then how do you expect anime fledglings to distinguish “Fat yaoi girls” from normal fangirls? The general impression the term gives is that Yaoi girls = fat and therefore bad, and to a less extent the majority of fangirls who read BL. You may say that you don’t mean it, that I am twisting the issue, but the truth is out. Be rational and accept it, grudging you may be.

    ————————————————————————————
    “To put it crudely, if you choose a certain acitivity, you have to be prepared to be implicated in its stereotypes.” ->
    Yes, I am prepared to be hit with stereotypes, but adopting a passive attitude in face of the possibility of an overwhelmingly negative responses is only going to worsen the situation. So I voiced my opinion and as expected, excessive rudeness was instantly spewed out by people who can’t express their opinons without discharging volleys of obscenity.

    ————————————————————————————
    “If you have that much time and effort, how about you weed out those giving your kind a bad name? But here you are trying to change the mindsets of people who have the particular mindset precisely because of your black sheep.”
    I try to when I meet one. However truly rabid fangirls are just one side of the coin, another side is people who perpetuate this unpleasant stereotype and continue to ridicule fangirls who give the whole community a bad name. You are just as guilty.

    ————————————————————————————
    “You have just explained your entire psyche and mindset. You care too much about what people think of you.” ->
    Isn’t being aware what people are saying about your group may harm your individual image what anti-stereotype argument is all about? Again, it goes to demonstrate that you are too apathetic to care.

    “You are NOT an ordinary fangirl because these do not go around campaigning for equal yaoi rights. You are in denial and afraid of being typecast.” ->
    By ordinary I mean I am not psychotic, frothing and go out of my way to make my love for BL known to the whole wide world. Anyhow, I take it (afraid being typecast and campaigning for equal yaoi rights) as a compliment. As I have said in my previous comment: I don’t like people overtly or subtly criticizing my hobbies and tastes unless they have a damn good reason to back up their claim, nor do I like to be typecast in the “fat yaoi girl” role, which you say is not targeted toward me and other non-fat fangirls who like BL, however the truth is anything but.

    “and maybe you’ll realise what others think isn’t that important.” ->
    Unfortunately, as much as I want to convince myself the the nasty term “Fat Yaoi Girl” isn’t targeted toward ordinary fangirl like me, contempt for yaoi girls has gotten out of bounds, and there underlies an insidious general dislike for fangirls who enjoy BL. The reason why I brough the issue up is because I do care about repellent image the term “FYG” casts upon the fangirls, and rightfully so. In other words, I realise what others think is important. For their perception of my group and individuals in the group is closely related, therefore negative group image is harmful to me personally.

    You may section the blacksheeps off from the rest of the group, but the defining characteristic of a stereotype (in this case, FYG) is the brainless simplification of the exact definition, difference is ignored. But even then, I am sure a plump but reserved yaoi girl may be very upset at your complete lack of remorse with spreading the stereotype. And as I have said, an dislike for girls who read yaoi is why yaoi girls are termed as fat. This is the VERY reason why I tried to persuade you to quit bandying about the term as a light joke, for it is not funny and very offensive.

    Rainy

  36. 36 AsouKai 62 comments

    GG i posted a comment in the wrong place.

    Rainy, you are obviously very scared of people having a wrong perception of you. Why don’t you continue living in that world and stop making such a big fuss out of nothing?

    If otakus don’t go out of their way to change public perception that they are sex-crazed pedophilic beasts, what gives you the perceived right to claim that “the time is ripe for raising some awareness of the issue”?

    Sex-crazed pedophilic beasts are actually a bigger cause for concern than your reputation of a normal fangirl being labelled wrongly as a yaoi girl or even a FAT yaoi girl.

    Nobody gives a damn, you’re just deluding yourself that there’s only 1 side to everything; the everything-is-fine-and-dandy side.

  37. 37 Rainy 9 comments

    “(The claim that ‘I can’t be a racist. I have eaten at the same table as black people!’ is unconvincing: During early days of desegregation, many White and Black students finally managed to sit in the same classroom and receive the same education, racial tension still ran high and plenty of Whites felt no reservation and shame about show their distaste for Blacks, literally sitting the same classroom they may be.) ”

    I mistook the stance you have on the issue, this Atkinson person is hypocrite. Please disregard that part.

    —————————-
    AsouKai, this is very amusing, if in your mind fangirl image is trivial because there are even more ghastly images of otakus as pedophilic beasts to combat,(Ooooh, the very example your wild imagination conjures up at the trigger of a mere comment!) then you don’t really understand the dreadful name the term FYG is projecting on us fangirls.

    “Nobody gives a damn, you’re just deluding yourself that there’s only 1 side to everything; the everything-is-fine-and-dandy side.” ->
    Then why did you respond? If by adopting your own warped sense of logic that there is not 1 side to everything, but 2 sides, then you will have to accept that another side which is that the fangirl generalisation is a serious matter, yet you dismiss this side lightly and only accept that fangirls stereotype is not important while claiming that there are two sides to everything. A non sequitur at its finest. Do you have even the slightest idea what you are talking about?

    I am so sick of people “think” that they read something they instinctively disagree with, then promptly launch into ferocious attack to “prove” their points, of course logic can be left out, but obscenities and sexual orientation questioning to pepper the “argument” with can be freely added to spice the discussion up. They are the real trolls.

    Rainy

  38. 38 T_T||| 451 comments

    LOL Rainy
    LOL tjhan
    LOL Asoukai
    LOL drmchsr0
    LOL Tsubaki
    LOL Kwok
    LOL T_T|||

    “Do you have even the slightest idea what you are talking about?”
    I giggled at this.

    “I am so sick of people “think” that they read something they instinctively disagree with, then promptly launch into ferocious attack to “prove” their points, of course logic can be left out, but obscenities and sexual orientation questioning to pepper the “argument” with can be freely added to spice the discussion up. They are the real trolls.”
    I LOL-ed at this.

    “If you think I was seeking your racially insensitive line to buttress the stereotype argument, then you are dodging the real racial issue at hand.”
    This was totally hilarious.

    “As to the alleged “lying” on my part, it is anything but a fact. Are you willing to bet your very life on the “fact” that I lied about not interested in yaoi? If you hold any hesitation about the wager, then you know, albet grudgingly, that you hold uncertainty about my interests.”
    This convinced my view that you’re a FYG.

    “Do you really understand what politically sensitive means? If you do, you wouldn’t frown upon this habit of mine “reading/drawing gay men sex.” For it’s against the law to discriminate against gays/lesbians.”
    Hi lesbian-cum-FYG. Oh you aren’t a lesbian? Why aren’t you one? Not your preference? Why isn’t it your sexual preference? BECAUSE YOU FUCKING DISAPPROVE OF IT. LOL.

    “By ordinary I mean I am not psychotic, frothing and go out of my way to make my love for BL known to the whole wide world. ”
    Yes you are. And you just dug deeper into your shitpile with the above comment.

    Potential Rainy thought: “You’re a fucking troller. Get lost”
    Yes I am. I troll anime blogs in search of dumbasses. It’s my part-time job. LOL Rainy. I’ve seen tonnes of arguments before, and I’ve concluded that you suck more than Kenny Liu. At least Kenny Liu had his own stand, even though he was a dimwit. Your eyes must be clogged for you can’t read the points carefully and correctly.

    LOL I love INTANETTO DORAMA. LOL Rainy. Dumbass.

  39. 39 AsouKai 62 comments

    Yes, I’m fully aware of what I’m talking about, and I’m also fully aware that you are just being over-sensitive.

    Why did I respond? Simple, you’re trolling on my friend’s website. And I find your arguments a tad unsatisfying.

    Otakus have, or have not, been trying to stave off perception such as the example I’ve given. This is where my point of having 2 sides(or even more, but let’s try to keep it between a yes or no) comes into play. I consider myself a normal guy who’s into anime, i can go to the extent of buying figurines, manga, merchandise. I even go to cosfests. But am I a “sex-crazed pedophilic beast”? No. But on the other hand, there are some who are in that category. Just like Fat Yaoi Girls. This is the 2 sides I’m referring to, and I apologise to has misleaded you to think that I was talking about whether the issue at hand was serious, or not.

    What my good friend tjhan had posted about was the situation of Fat Yaoi Girls. He only showed 1 side of the issue you would come to vehemently protest. Despite claiming that you needed to uphold justice for all fangirls, you failed to realise he is only talking about a particular group of fangirls who behave in a grotesque manner. Instead, you decided to ‘read between the lines’ and infer that he was:

    1) Slamming all fangirls.
    2) Being racist.

    Oh, I sure know what I’m talking about. There are 2 sides to everything, but where you stand is the problem. I don’t see why, when you’re obviously on the side of your so-called ‘normal fangirls’, you choose to take a stand for the other, proceed to get yourself bombarded with stereotypes meant for the OTHER side and then try to explain your own righteous crusade, when you are already fighting a losing battle.

    If you’re wondering why I said as such, let me inform you that I do not hold that stereotypical mindset which you have mentioned against all fangirls. Since I do not think Fat Yaoi Girls = all fangirls, i naturally don’t think that this so-called generalisation or simplification is something to be fussed over. Yes, this fangirl generalisation is serious, but if i were in your shoes, it wouldn’t matter much to me at all. To make an analogy, it’s the same as me not giving a damn about being typecasted as a sex-crazed pedophilic beast which is another serious generalisation, isn’t it?

    If somebody posts the same thing about Fat Yuri Loving Otakus, I’d just post a comment and say thank god i’m not one of them, that’s all.

  40. 40 T_T||| 451 comments

    Hey FYG Rainy. since we both have similar hobbies aka “Aniblog Trolling”, let’s troll each of our blogs. I love INTERNET DRAMA.

  41. 41 T_T||| 451 comments

    And LOL Asoukai. Why did we not love argumentative essays in General Paper before?

  42. 42 Tsubaki 408 comments

    it’s against the law to discriminate against gays/lesbians.

    IT’S ILLEGAL TO BE GAY IN SINGAPORE. KTHXBYE. SO YOUR AR-MA-REE-KAN LAWLS DON’T WORK HERE.
    WEARING A YELLOW SWIMMING SWIMSUIT AND PARYING IN ZOUKOUT = DEATH PENALTY.
    WE DONT EVEN HAVE A SINGLE GAY POLITICIAN HERE, DESPITE ME CONSTANTLY LOBBYING FOR ONE.

    FOR THE LOVE OF YAOI BOYS, PLEASE BACK DOWN FROM THIS ARGUEMENT.
    IT’S LIKE TALKING A PIG (YOU) AND TRYING TO MATE WITH TJ IN ORDER TO PRODUCE THE CORRECT OFFSPRING (IMAGE) THAT YOU WANT.

    *switches off caplocks*

  43. 43 tj_han 893 comments

    Correction: It’s not illegal to be gay. Just illegal to engage in unnatural sex, in this case, anal sex.

    I’m tired of this and the comments are getting way too long to read. At last count, it was like 11,500 words in total.

    Anyway, Rainy, I’m glad you realised that Big Ron reference was not meant to be taken literally.

    This is never-ending, as is always the case for such internet arguments. There’s no referee or judge to decide. Rather than waste this learning opportunity, I instead welcome you to write from your perspective of being a yaoi hobbyist, describing what the actual community is like, the various types of personalities, activities etc and hopefully dispelling any misconceptions the readers here have. Since you say we have no knowledge aside from stereotypes. I for one know just the bad examples of yaoi fangirls and would be interested to find out more about the good girls.

    You could send it through email to me and I can post it here. After all, I’m proud to say that this site boasts a daily readership of 1200 people and many of us here would be interested in an insider’s viewpoint.

    The comments made here by others may be a bit harsh but I’m sure you can present a balanced article they’ll start to appreciate both sides more.

  44. 44 Rainy 9 comments

    AsouKai, if you have taken some time to read my previous comments about my stance on the issue, you will hopefully see that I don’t only see “the everything-is-fine-and-dandy side.” Quoted word by word:
    “I am not raising an unreasonable tantrum at your persoanl judgement about very rabid fangirls. For I dislike the ‘rabid, frothing, psychotic ones (fangirls) who plague anime conventions that people scoff at’ as much as you do.”

    I don’t understand how can you accuse me of only seeing the bright side when I stated clearly and early on that not every fangirl is rational and some go way overboard. There are two explanations for your misconception of my allegedly narrow outlook: 1. A deliberate omission in order to accuse me of being a troll. 2. Hastily jumps to conclusion you feel to be right after glancing over the argument, “thinking” that you understand my points. Sadly, should case 1 be true, then you border on lying and liars are held in contempt. Case 2 goes to exemplify people like you who start to “argue” when you have yet to understand the issue you are arguing against or for.

    “He only showed 1 side of the issue you would come to vehemently protest….you failed to realise he is only talking about a particular group of fangirls who behave in a grotesque manner.” ->
    Allow me to clarify one crucial component, I hope it is our mutual understanding that this “1 side of the issue” is the ugly side of fangirl-animedom: truly radical fangirls who loves yaoi without restraint. And your perception of the root of my protests is my stubborn belief that every fangirl is rational and likable and therefore should not be termed “Fat yaoi girl”, since you said that I am “deluding yourself that there’s only 1 side to everything; the everything-is-fine-and-dandy side.”

    Again, it goes to demonstrate your shallow understanding of the issue at hand. For when have I ever argued in favor of this impossible-to-defend lie that every fangirl is fine and rational? In fact, this “news” about the presence of obnoxious fangirls is not even debated over in the argument, because this fact is mutually understood and is alas, not even close to the point of the whole issue. Frankly, I would like to inquire into the great mystery as to why are you arguing something you don’t even understand? I am really tempted to be more sarcastic and derisive regarding your enigmatic behavior, but I need to check myself. Restraint, Rainy, restraint……

    ————————————————————
    As to why the epithet “Fat Yaoi Girl” is offensive even though TJ may only mean a narrow band of girls who truly deserve it has being reasoned and reiterated at least 4 times. Maybe I should summarize my argument in capsule form for easier digestion, huh? Then on a second thought, it finally dawned on me that trying to inject sense and logic into some people isn’t worth it, because the very concept that stereotype like the insulting “Fat Yaoi Girl” leaves a stain on fangirls and maliciously ridicules physically fat people and therefore should not be perpetuated is foreign and will remain to be incomprehensible to deaf ears, no matter how hard I may try to thaw away the icy ignorance and insensitivity.

    Rainy

  45. 45 yangyang 1 comment

    hey rainy and tjhan, you two have nothing better to do izzit? Didn’t have to even read (both) your posts and I already know it’s ‘bo liao’!

    go get a life! join e school debating club or sth…

  46. 46 helspectre 47 comments

    Rainy, why don’t you accept the fact that u got pwned and get on with life.

  47. 47 Gary Ee 25 comments

    Welcome to the world of the Internet where certain individuals are impervious to logic, rationale and all attempts at persuation. Still one must try. Sic semper fidelis.

    Simply promulgating a view does not necessarily mean that one holds a greater generalization to be true.

    For example if I say “I dislike English football hooligans” as a statement of opinion, it does not follow that I dislike English football *fans* or that I find that all, most or even the sliver of a majority of English football fans are hooligans. In essence I am expressing a dislike of a small subset of a subset of a subset. Why does the nationality come into play? Perhaps the individual is aware that some rotten apples in that particular cart has gifted them with a rather unsavory reputation for violence. Undeserving individuals have been placed under increased surveillance during the recently concluded world cup simply because a small faction of them have the bad habit of starting brawls. Is this fair to them? No. Is this wise of the organizers? Debatably. Does this make the organizers “racist”, or in this case anti-English? No. They do not assume that all Englishmen who enjoy a game of football are also fans of recreational mayhem. They are simply keeping an eye out for the group of them that are.

    So if one uses the term “fat yaoi girl” in a degoratory manner, it does not logically follow that the person disdains all yaoi girls, believes all female anime fans like yaoi or thinks all yaoi girls are fat. The phrase has three imperative parts, if you really want to buy into that political correctness balliwick, then you can say “yaoi girls who unfortunately create the negative image bestowed upon them by a fringe number of their membership” but reasonably in real life, no one typically speaks that way unless he or she is trying to avoid a lawsuit.

    In a more extreme example. “I do not like the blue, leaky umbrella”. This does not mean
    1) All umbrellas are blue
    2) I do not like umbrellas
    3) All blue umbrellas are leaky or vice versa

    Any assumption that the above phrase actually construes or implies the bottom three statements is fallacious logic.

    Likewise “I do not like fat, yaoi girls” does not equate
    1) Girls are yaoi (fans)
    2) I do not like girls
    3) All yaoi girls are fat (or vice versa)

  48. 48 ZeroG 38 comments

    yangyang, its not really as bo liao as u think. Rainy simply speak out for wat she feels as “NOT RIGHT” about FYG appearing in the sentence “I went with expectations of fat yaoi girls but instead saw HOT GOTH LOLI CHICKs, dedicated cosplayers and a very vibrant local scene.”. Take it as an English teacher trying to pick out unsuitable/negative innotated adjective from a student’s eassy.

    I re-read this sentence several time and connects it with Rainy’s emo reply - hey JH isnt god/Suzumiya Haruhi right? If YES, watever JH thinks/expects will be coming true and OMG… Yaoi Loving girls will all be dumping their Xendo and ExtremeX and indulging themself @ the nearby BKs or Carl’s Junior 24/7. (Ok fine, not all girls takes sliming pills, its juz my way to make it sounds more dramatic. However, i shall clarify this here be4 being torched or trolled by *insert random name here*)

    But that’s not going to happened, right? I seriously hope not. JH, answer me, r u Suzumi Haruhi or someone with similar ablility?

    Its really easy to kick up a big fuss.
    My conclusion: ADJECTIVE IS THE SOURCE OF ALL EVIL

  49. 49 tj_han 893 comments

    Robin: Yangyang is my colleague at work and he’s just joking haha. Pay no attention to him.

    Gary puts everything very well.

    And to reply to ZeroG’s point, this is my CLOSED SPACE haha. Haruhi sucks.

  50. 50 ZeroG 38 comments

    “Haruhi sucks” huh…

    I love watching anime and I must say this perhaps deliberate attack is quite offensive to the SOS-Dan loving boys. You may find loving selfcentered chara and nekomimi objectionable, yet you have your 1/8 sized figurine-complex, Saya-complex that casts women(saya) in subservient roles(to ur n00b camera), and other fetishes too many to name, yet seldom do SOS-Dan loving guys (like me) accuse you (and legions of humans who have similar tastes) of being “HEN” and typecast you in other negative steretypes.

    BTW, i’ve absolutely no idea what am I typing.

  51. 51 Hinano 53 comments

    What ever happened to free speech?
    its his blog, why can’t he say whats on his mind?
    its not like he’s pushing his beliefs on anyone….
    yet Rainy comes in ‘raining’ on his parade with her beliefs up his ass.
    honestly its like that site “dontdatehimgirl” that got sued by the guy who got insulted on there. in america we have free speech (assuming thats where Rainy si from) so you should stfu and deal with it or just ignore it. geez.

  52. 52 jpmeyer 68 comments

    Oh man, I just realized something: not all fat yaoi fangirls are fat.

    (I’m amused about how I “popularized” the phrase “fat yaoi fangirls” in a post about how people generally are using “fat” just as a generic insult when they really mean “annoying”.)

  53. 53 T_T||| 451 comments

    “As to why the epithet “Fat Yaoi Girl” is offensive even though TJ may only mean a narrow band of girls who truly deserve it has being reasoned and reiterated at least 4 times. Maybe I should summarize my argument in capsule form for easier digestion, huh? Then on a second thought, it finally dawned on me that trying to inject sense and logic into some people isn’t worth it, because the very concept that stereotype like the insulting “Fat Yaoi Girl” leaves a stain on fangirls and maliciously ridicules physically fat people and therefore should not be perpetuated is foreign and will remain to be incomprehensible to deaf ears, no matter how hard I may try to thaw away the icy ignorance and insensitivity.”

    It just means you’re dumb.

    jpmeyer >> You are studying these stuff for a degree. You’ll pwn us all. I don’t mind seeing a flame war between you and some other aniblogger though. Will be darn interesting.

  54. 54 Kitty 2 comments

    Looks at the looooong post and the looong list of comments.

    WOW.

    Unfortunately it’s 1am, and it’s time to go nighty night. Will return tomorrow for more fun.

  55. 55 AsouKai 62 comments

    ‘AsouKai, if you have taken some time to read my previous comments about my stance on the issue, you will hopefully see that I don’t only see “the everything-is-fine-and-dandy side.” ‘

    “I don’t understand how can you accuse me of only seeing the bright side when I stated clearly and early on that not every fangirl is rational and some go way overboard.”

    Oh, excuse me for my poor english. Instead of saying that you only see the fine and dandy side, i should’ve said you only want to see the fine and dandy side. Let me further explain, your comments on this blog may seem to you as rightful defence of normal fangirls, but to be less apathetic, in your terms, i could ask you why are you so quick to point a finger at tjhan86 and say he’s lumping all fangirls as FYG when he already said he had no intention to(not forgetting the explanation)? After which you stubbornly refused to accept and continued to pursue a different matter: why somehow everyone thinks all fangirls are FYG (when it is obviously false) and why you are right.

    Of course you’re right, because you refused to accept his explanation, twisted the meaning of his original sentences because you’re not as ‘apathetic’ as he is, and then argue that he is wrong. Many of us know that at times there is generalisation of fangirls as FYG, HENCE my analogy of sex-crazed pedophilic otakus which you think is some kind of dumb joke. Also, for your information, sexual preferences of otakus is a problem being studied by psychiatrists as opposed to your amazingly-important all fangirls are being typecast as FYG. The focus is nowhere near the presence of FYG but rather in areas as yaoi/moe/loli. Please go to the following link for more info(i apologise for being unable to make it a link because i do not know how to use Wordpress, however easy it is.):

    http://kwok.infuxion.net/blog/loliacademia/otaku-sexuality/

    You can accuse me of failing to see the small picture, but you can’t accuse me of failing to see the big picture. To me, this is what you mean when you said that i thought it was trivial. In that sense, you are correct, FYG is a trivial matter when compared to more alarming problems such as Otaku Sexuality which target the whole Otaku society, not just the fangirls nor the FYG.

    By the way, to be a little bit more sensitive, i would like to remind you of the phrase Fat Yaoi Girls instead of Fat Yaoi Fangirls. So does this mean tjhan is actually targeting the whole female species and typecasting all of them to be FYG? Lol.

    ‘Allow me to clarify one crucial component, I hope it is our mutual understanding that this “1 side of the issue” is the ugly side of fangirl-animedom: truly radical fangirls who loves yaoi without restraint. And your perception of the root of my protests is my stubborn belief that every fangirl is rational and likable and therefore should not be termed “Fat yaoi girl”, since you said that I am “deluding yourself that there’s only 1 side to everything; the everything-is-fine-and-dandy side.” ‘

    Since i no speak good engrish, i have to say that the statement is untrue. To further prevent myself from any engrish slip-ups i shall change 2 sides to 2 groups, you can choose to argue that that’s 2 totally different things but all i can say is i’m sorry i no speak good engrish.

    Anyway, my perception is that tjhan is referring to a small group of fangirls who, unfortunately, are frowned upon in terms of behaviour. The reason why i said you are deluding yourself is because you seemed to think that everything should be fine-and-dandy for fangirls and that there shouldn’t be such a thing as FYG because according to you, whatever these FYGs do will ultimately affect all fangirls. Indulge me(lol) when I say 2 sides for this matter; there are normal healthy fangirls but there will always be FYG and you can’t deny that(for which you’ve already stated).

    Public perception/opinion will always be influenced by hearsay UNTIL we see it for ourselves. To summarise one of kokanaden’s comments, you are making a big ruckus, letting unlearned people know about the presence of FYGs and their (seemingly) overwhelming negative publicity which affects the reputation of fangirls by choosing to fault tjhan on something he didn’t do. Your rebuttals only serve the purpose of telling people that,”Everyone thinks that all fangirls are FYGs and as a NORMAL fangirl I have to serve the duty of upholding justice by telling everyone(no matter how authoritative my tone is) that it is not the case!”

    I will admit here and now, that I am one of those unlearned people. But what are you going to do? Dismiss my argument as some form of obsessive need to post a comment on tjhan’s blog?

    In fact, when tjhan mentioned FYGs, i was so sure he was joking. The fangirls I know of are absolutely normal, from your definitions, and don’t even seem to be mildly disturbed by this giant debaucle of negative public perception of all fangirls as FYGs. I AM a living example of why your arguments are deemed as over-sensitive by the others, unless you want to say i’m not part of the public. tjhan didn’t, intentionally or not, force me to think that all fangirls are FYGs, neither was I influenced to think that way. But your arguments make it seem as though somehow I am thinking in that manner and you have to be the Power Ranger who comes to save the day.

    Consider this, if you took all your comments back and said one sentence,”Thank God many fangirls like myself are not FYG and these small group of FYGs just cause nausea whenever they appear.”
    Do you think any of us would’ve been,”Omg you liar, you must be a FYG, because all fangirls are FYGs!”

    LOL, obviously not. We’re more likely to take comfort in knowing that there are only small groups of FYGs, because, according to your previous arguments, you are ‘intentionally or unintentionally forcing upon us’ that FYGs are just a minority and do not affect the whole fangirl community.

    I’m pretty sure people who read up this whole issue might be influenced to think that public opinion of all fangirls is that they are FYGs, all because of your righteous stand for justice.

    “As to why the epithet “Fat Yaoi Girl” is offensive even though TJ may only mean a narrow band of girls who truly deserve it has being reasoned and reiterated at least 4 times. Maybe I should summarize my argument in capsule form for easier digestion, huh? Then on a second thought, it finally dawned on me that trying to inject sense and logic into some people isn’t worth it, because the very concept that stereotype like the insulting “Fat Yaoi Girl” leaves a stain on fangirls and maliciously ridicules physically fat people and therefore should not be perpetuated is foreign and will remain to be incomprehensible to deaf ears, no matter how hard I may try to thaw away the icy ignorance and insensitivity.”

    So, what logic and what sense are you talking about? Your own? Ignorance and insensitivity is the exact reason why terms such as FYG and lolis are well tolerated. Most otakus who do not actually belong to the FYG group won’t be bothered by it because it’s not true, and since MOST otakus are like this, it becomes the public opinion, doesn’t it?

    I don’t care whether you’re fingering tjhan as guilty for typecasting all fangirls as FYGs, but I sure can point a finger at you for being too conservative. And don’t start with me on conservatism, I’m a Chinese Singaporean, and my values can’t get anymore conservative than they already are. But since you have proven that ‘one mountain will always be higher than the other’, then that’s good, for you of course.

    Only you.

  56. 56 kokanaden 174 comments

    I was about to launch into a tirade (trust me, I had all the points ready), then I read Gary’s explanation, and thought to myself “Ah, someone sensible at last.” As such, my comment just got cut in half.

    First to address Rainy’s point that she is “so sick of people who ‘think’ that they read something they instinctively disagree with, then promptly launch into a ferocious attack to “prove” their points, of course logic can be left out, but obscenities and sexual orientation questioning to pepper the ‘argument’ with can be freely added to spice the discussion up. They are the real trolls.”

    I would take the liberty to presume that this particular comment refers to my previous two comments, since they included vulgarities and sexual references and analogies, and provide an adequate reply. Through all your arguments, you’re trying to put forth the notion that tjhan’s statement on “fat yaoi girls” is stereotypical, which would perpetuate a wrong mentality. I’ll touch on the latter later, but evidently from your comments I can conclude you generally hate stereotypes. I’ll comment more on the term “stereotype” later; for now I’ll comment instead on your blatant hypocrisy. You claim through all your comments that you’re fighting stereotypical thoughts and words, yet by the paragraph i just quoted above, you’ve proven yourself to stereotype others. First, let me dissect the statements above, point-by-point:

    a. She is “so sick of people who ‘think’ that they read something they instinctively disagree with, then promptly launch into a ferocious attack to “prove” their points, of course logic can be left out…” From what I understand, she is disgusted with this particular group of people who posts on tjhan’s site. And who are these “particular people”? She describes them as those who disagree with others’ opinions (including her own opinions on this issue) without giving thought to it (hence the word instinctive; which indicates a reflex action, and thus not requiring any/little thought process). She carries on describing them as people who attack opinions they dislike (or do not agree with) with hotheadedness (hence the term ferocious), and insinuates (because she does not make a direct connection that this group of people do not use logic at all by the word “can”) that this particular group of people do not use logic in their counter-arguments to those points they are against.

    b. “…but obscenities and sexual orientation questioning to pepper the ‘argument’ with can be freely added to spice the discussion up…” From this portion of the paragraph/sentence, it is clear that she assumes that the obscenities and sexual orientation questioning serves as an aphrodisiac (pun intended) to their counter-arguments. By this, she is hinting that this particular group’s counter-arguments lack content (use of the inverted commas when typing the word “argument” in the sentence )and only serve to distort the topic at hand (hence the phrase “spice the discussion up”).

    c. “… They are the real trolls.” She concludes her statement by proposing her views on such people, that they are the real blog trolls, and not her, which she was earlier accused of by T_T|||.

    I’ve dissected the statement into 3 parts. Now, for the analysis. Basically, what she is trying to say here is that people who post comments with sexual innuendos and expletives are trolls, and that the comments actually lack content and is just hot air to stir up a fuss. Given the elaboration above, I hereby formerly accuse Rainy of being stereotypical herself, and as such, being hypocritical. Why? Are all comments with sexual references and expletives contentless just because a small portion are? In addition, I have read through all the comments with sexual references expletives, and I can safely declare that they all contain very valid points. I do not need to convince you Rainy, just go re-read the comments yourself, and re-read my comments, especially. In addition, by commenting on such comments that way, in essence you’re trying to tell the reading populace surfing tjhan’s website that they view future such comments with the kind of disdain you show them, because all of them would lack content and are just a waste of time. Isn’t that a stereotype you’re promoting explicitly there, with all the elaborations and negative connotations used? A stereotype which is not largely not true at all? And if you concede that you’re stereotyping such comments, then aren’t you hypocritical, since you yourself are accusing tjhan of being stereotypical. Would appreciate it if you could really look yourself in the mirror first, before you declare that you “would rather not perpetuate stereotypes about the group I belong to, even it is a loosely defined.” (I quote , yet again.) Oh, unless, in this case, you do not care about the implications of promoting such a stereotype, because you do not belong to the group of “foul-mouthed, perverted post-ers”.

    I’ll now attempt to explain the term “stereotype”, and its implications, when used. Stereotype, in short, means to categorise negatively; or rather using terms which have negative connotations to describe groups of people. Weirdly though, we take it for granted that such terms used naturally convey some sort of negative connotation. Stereotype literally means to categorise, yet in my definition, when we use the word “stereotype”, we associate it negatively. Why do we associate it negatively? Because we have been taught to understand the word “stereotype” in this manner. It is no doubt that through the countless ages, generations after generations have been taught that “stereotype” is used negatively. So fast forward the argument, my main point is that, for such a negative connotation to be associated with the word “streotype”, and not other synonyms, someone definitely had to propose that the word be used in such a negative light in the first place. The usage of the word “stereotype” is such a manner then caught on with the masses, and today, is used to define its own phenomena.

    Back to the point, the one perpetuating the negative connotation in “Fat Yaoi Girls” is you, not tjhan. tjhan merely made an observation that this group of girls with similar physical, linguistical, and mental characteristics did not really fit in with his character; he preferred mixing with gothic chicks. You, on the other hand, misinterpreted his statement, and then included a negative connotation to the phrase FYG, since as you aptly defined much earlier, their behaviour and appearance are loathsome to mainstream society, something tjhan never mentioned. And where did all these come from? The word “fat”, “loud-mouthed”, terms tjhan used. When viewed objectively, fat means overweight, and loud-mouthed means to speak loudly. No negative connotations. However, through the eons, fat and loud-mouthed are 2 other terms, which like the word stereotypical, have been stereotyped to include negative connotations which we now associate them with. Therefore, whenever we accuse people who use such terms to categorise people as “stereotypical”, it is we in fact who are perpetuating such a negative connotation to these terms, because we ourselves see it this way. Therefore, while tjhan merely tried to express his preference in looking and mingling with a certain group of friends, you, in fact, put a negative spin to it, that because you see the word “fat” and “loudmouthed” as degratory terms, you conveniently put the negative tag on this group of people, then finger tjhan conveniently as the culprit. I, for one, have never regarded fat to be something negative; nor do i consider loudmouthed to be something of a bad characteristic. I have always told my friends to treat people who are different equally like we would treat anyone else. You, like the masses out there, are blindly perpetuating a societal stereotype that fat, yaoi, loudmouthed etc. are degratory terms to be viewed in a negative light, and as such should be treated differently and with sensitivity. So who is the one perpetuating such negative connotations? You, the one who blindly follows social conventions and stereotypes.

    I think this furore is a classic example of what we term as “making a mountain out of a molehill”. I had assumed initially that the point I just brought up above should be common sense to all, especially those old enough to argue on stereotypes and so on. Maybe I myself have assumed too much, that common sense is not so “common” after all.

    Enough of this argument. We should move on from here.

  57. 57 Toren 2 comments

    “If a man resists truths that are all too evident, in opposing him it is not easy to find an argument by which one may cause him to change his opinion. The reason for this is neither the man’s ability nor the teacher’s weakness; nay, when a man who has been trapped in an argument hardens to stone, how shall one any longer deal with him by argument?”
    –The Discourses of Epictetus, Book 1.5

  58. 58 Carl 3 comments

    That was sheer poetry.

  59. 59 Sayatsugu 8 comments

    Now that we have seen volleys flying to and fro, may I ask that both of them summaries their next volley in a paragraph of 50 words or less ?

    Being the common layman on the street with a less than capable command of the English language, I implore both of you to wield the intelligence you both possess to come with a summary which you prove your cause in this argument.

    No big words please. K.I.S.S.

    Make your stand.

    In a way that even laymen like me can understand with a glance and not crack my brains reading it.
    I had enough of terms like “reading between the lines”. That is so subjective.

    Do you both dare to take up this challenge ?

  60. 60 ryuuu 3 comments

    WOW, I can’t believe how long that is. I can’t believe I read through them all too. I just wrote this so that Rainy would stop with her dissection of what-people-say and what-people-meant-in-what-they-say. I’m gonna try make this short to avoid my comment from being dissected. I’m tempted to make some jokes but it seems that any joke would be lost and will be labeled as either insensitive or insulting.

    To Rainy:
    1. You know that your effort are useless right? You’re arguing with anime fans that have gotten to the stage where they don’t care what others said about them. I’m also one of this type of anime fans. We strive to make fun of anything that might be insulting. Why? Because our mind is not conservative anymore. Why? Because we like anime with content that is not politically correct. If we wanted something politically correct, we’d watch something mainstream.

    2. I tried to write something here, but it hit me that I really don’t have the energy to write something that’s as well written as the other commenter before have done. It’s 4am here. Maybe later.

  61. 61 HalcyonDF 50 comments

    *begins to cast*
    you have cast Comment on riuva.com.
    1 to comment count.

  62. 62 DarkMirage 18 comments

    I’m too lazy to read through everything, but I’ll just get straight to the point.

    Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you’re still retarded.

    That said, I too am frequently guilty of being retarded.

    Anyway, the point in contention is insignificant. The only way we can settle this is by hiring some professionals to conduct a sample survey and plot some curve charts in order to determine the proportion of fat yaoi fan girls to “normal” yaoi fan girls… Gao.

    Rainy:

    Hmmm, but why do you say that it is awfully insulting to call yaoi fan girls “fat”? Are you saying that being fat is a bad thing? So being a “normal” yaoi fan girl who enjoys a healthy dosage of hawt BL action is fine, but being fat is not? Aren’t you judging fat people the same way you claim tj han to be judging “normal” yaoi fan girls?

    And just what is a “healthy dosage” and “normal fan girls” anyway? You mentioned that not all yaoi fan girls are “extreme”, but how do you judge what is “healthy BL” and what is “extreme BL”? And by classifying some yaoi fan girls as “extreme”, are you not judging your fellow fan girls in the same way you claim tj han to be judging them?

    It sounds to me like you are a hypocrite. You need to work on your own personal prejudices. Or you need to stop taking things on the internet so seriously. People make sweeping comments like these all the
    time. Everyone does. You are just over-reacting because you feel that it is personal. I bet we won’t even be here if tj han had said “fat lazy 4channers”.

    Stop feeling personal about the internet. It helps.

  63. 63 Tsubaki 408 comments

    Well said Dark!

  64. 64 kokanaden 174 comments

    I suspect DarkMirage is very good at summarizing thoughts. I took so many words to bring across 3/4 of what he just said.

    I think I’m retarded. I should join the special olympics. heh.

  65. 65 HalcyonDF 50 comments

    run kokanaden run. cos life is like a box of cokolate.

  66. 66 ShadowrazoR 4 comments

    Just popping in to say something (and maybe get flamed in the process).

    I showed this post to a non-fat Yaoi fangirl friend and she says that Rainy is an idiot.

    ’nuff said. Your “normal fangirls” (and Yaoi fangirl, I might add) don’t need YOU, a non-yaoi-fangirl, to defend them. They can seperate themselves from the FYGs just fine, thank you very much.

  67. 67 ShadowrazoR 4 comments

    … and 30 seconds after posting my comment I realise that this post has been molding for 2 days already. And Rainy has been gone for 3. Am I too late or what?

  68. 68 tj_han 893 comments

    No one will flame you lol Shadow because this thread is dead. Everyone can come in here for good fun and all comments I’ll read.

  69. 69 ShadowrazoR 4 comments

    OK then.

    By the way, this means that Rainy’s ran away with her tail between her legs? Sure took a lot for that to happen; 3 long posts from Gary Ee, AsouKai, and kokanaden to gattai into a nice big “da gou bang” for that. ^^;

  70. 70 appolinaire 8 comments

    Not all Asian people are short. General Chinese men have good, appropriate heights (compared to the whites)

  71. 71 Mak 2 comments

    This discourse is just totally pointless and stupid. Just be glad that the two of you have a difference in opinion.

  72. 72 Marmot 18 comments

    tl, dr

  73. 73 kokanaden 174 comments

    Hey, I’m still free! I’ve not been assasinated as yet. Yay!

  74. 74 Flereous 1 comment

    you know, I think rainy just needs a tampon

  75. 75 MintyGirl 1 comment

    I think that was a healthy little debate you two had going on. Both shared opinion and manage to keep things level headed up until you felt the need to make a blog about it and use, what little power you had here, to justify your voice of reason with others. I think you were both right in your point of views about what the other had to say. Juust, it was necessary for the rest of all that ‘breaking down’ each and every line of what happened there after.

  1. 1 Anime Desho Desho? » Fat Yaoi Girls ftw
  2. 2 Heterochromia » FYG = my current favourite abbreviation
  3. 3 Renegade Anime Blog » Blog Archive » ABC Drama Report: Fat Yaoi Fangirls
  4. 4 lolicontrol » Blog Archive » Post 3 of Day 3.5 of the Japan Trip
  5. 5 Anime Desho Desho? | Blog Archive | ἀπὸ μηχανῆς θεός’ ápo mēchanēs theós
  6. 6 prozac


Do not use any < and > for your own sake. It will end the comment there and then. Also, there is an automatic IQ filter which weeds out comments made by those who accidentally got transported from the stone age.

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