OtaGirls Cont.! Why Best Friends Get No LOVE! And 6 Tips to Become Boyfriend Material!

Wow, it seems like everyone has their own opinions on dating, especially the otaku females. Here are some of the counter-posts generated by the female otakus in response to my previous post on dating otaku females.

Sasa, the Germanic-Chinese Loligoth Meganekko Engineer

Marmot, who I never knew was a girl. She writes like a man seriously.

And the original starter of this whole BGR thing, That’s not Kanon replies with some tangential stuff regarding humour.

It’s pretty interesting that most of the lengthier comments and responses are actually from females. I suspect it is because the male otakus are not Subject Matter Experts at this and are sitting on the fence. Many of you guys thought the previous post was a funny joke one. Actually, ALL the points can be applied to real life to achieve success.

Of course, as Maglor mentioned, getting the relationship is one thing, but maintaining it is much harder. Nevertheless, why learn to fly before you can walk? So we decided to focus on how to get a girlfriend first. Obviously there are many types of girls, and you have to adjust your strategies accordingly. I mean, for example, when we fought the giant robot scorpion back in the first Mako Reactor Dungeon in FF7, we had to wait for his tail to be lowered before attacking. And when I fought the undead boss at Cosmo Canyon, I used an X-potion for an instant win. Similarly, there are different strategies involved with each type of girl but the key is to know her type. The only way to do this is through experience and keen observation.

More importantly, I noticed the people who really ought to have followed the advice of the previous article all thought it was a joke one while the people who are already attached or girls understood how effective it really is. This is because most inexperienced guys tend to have misconceptions about romance, most likely misled by their mums or female friends or romance chick flicks. Or eroge for that matter.

I’m not very romantic. In fact, I think of relationships in terms of economics, biology and sociology. This is probably due to my personality, which is a common otaku one of rationality and logic-based thinking. If you want romantic, emotional-based advice, go see Tsubaki of now-dead Anime Desho Desho. He’s quite the opposite of me. Too bad he’s busy playing MMORPGs, if not he’ll probably chip in with his version of a dating guide. The 10 tips I gave you did not pass through the moral exam. They were designed to be as efficient as possible and with a high-success rate.

I understand that #10 (the get to know many girls one) is a bit of a controversial tip. Personally, I wouldn’t date more than one girl at a time, but it’s always good to make more platonic friends. If the girlfriend gets jealous of everything, then you should ditch her. Friendships are just as important and you shouldn’t have to choose between one or the other. I’m always against nucleated couples who abandon their friends and spend all their time with each other.

This post was supposed to answer one fundamental question that OWEN S asked. Maglor suggested being nice and taking care of the girl’s needs ALL the time, but Sasa and I disagreed, citing that some balance has to be achieved. Because guys who treat girls too nice always become "best friends", dogs or rejected goods. Owen S asked for an elaboration on this and I shall gladly oblige.

Ok read the following scenario and the possible resulting endings:

Nicholas has a crush on a girl, Clare. Nicholas naturally wants Clare to like him back, so he does lots of nice things for her, such as buying her presents, treating her to meals, listening to all her grouses and complaints, agreeing with everything she says and trying to change himself to become what she said she liked. They talk often and Nicholas thinks they are close.

EITHER

a) One day, he confesses that he loves her but Clare gets upset and says, "Why are you ruining our friendship? We were best friends!" and avoids him from then on.

OR

b) Clare starts sharing her deeper emotional issues, about some other guy she likes who treats her badly. Nicholas listens patiently, with heart hurting. He decides to wait for her till she gets over him and realises how good Nicholas is. Clare has sex with the bad boy and runs crying to Nicholas again for the nth time. Nicholas never gets any and is just an emotional punching bag.

The desired outcome is obviously Clare realising that Nicholas was a great guy and loves her, and they both get together. But seriously, the odds are quite low and the investment is not worth the returns.

Why is this so? Girls have a weird tendency to classify guys, within their first few moments of meeting him. They are either "boyfriend material (sexy)" or "friend material (useful)". It is extremely difficult to jump from friend material to boyfriend material but quite easy to go from BFM to FM. Think about it in terms of taking the elevator – you start at the sixth floor of a 10 storey building. You can either press 1 or 10. It takes the same effort to pick either 1 or 10. But you can only take the elevator once. So if you chose 10, you can still go to 1 by jumping out the window. That’s easy and painful.If you picked 1, to climb up to 10 you’ll need to conquer the stairs which is tiring.

Anyway, the FMs will never get a chance of being the boyfriend. In fact, they are not even considered no matter what they do for the girl. It’s like playing Marvel vs Capcom in practice mode, no matter how many times you hit the opponent, her life bar won’t decrease. I don’t know the exact mechanics for this, but there is a direct co-relation between being BFM and actually scoring the girl. Watch out, because if you end up the FM, it’s almost impossible to convert your status to a BFM. You’ll probably have to step back, let her forget about you for a while and then try again after a period of time. Or just move on.

Obtaining the status of BFM is quite tricky. It does involve a certain degree of appearance but only about 20 percent. Guys do care about girls’ appearance but girls don’t really care as much about their guys’ looks. The other 80 percent is down to your actions and the things you say. Refer to the previous article for some tips.

Here are some tips to earn BFM Status:

1. Do not listen to her whine about her old lovers, love problems or other guys.
Once you do that, your status as FM is sealed. Most people rarely talk about their past relationships or crushes to someone they currently like, so by listening to them you are merely cementing that FM status. She’ll start to see you as a tool, an outlet to vent her problems. Since you can’t always say "NO" outright, it may be better to always steer the conversation topic away from such. Conversation steering is another skill that guys should always pack, as girls generally have no interesting topics to discuss, besides clothes and boybands.

2. Do not praise her too much. Keep it minimal.
This is where my favourite desert theory comes in. A cup of water in the desert is infinitely more precious than a cup of water in the river. If you praise her too much, she’ll be numb to it and further praises will not have any effect. So praise when the time is right. This concept is also applied in the anime world and referred to as "TSUNDERE!!". Bootlickers are never loved, and your not praising her differentiates you from the other guys who are only too happy to praise her because they think it makes her happy.
 
3. Be funny (to her).
As the posts by others have stated, humour is quite a difficult beast to grasp. But it is also a siren which alerts you when the fish is ready to be reeled in. Girls who like you always laugh at your "jokes", even if it’s terribly unfunny.

4. Always, at all costs, do not let her know about your crush on her.
Romance is like poker. If you show the opponent all your cards, you’re probably going to lose. Girls will always prefer a guy who doesn’t like them, to a guy who they know likes them. Mystery!! It’s strange but if the girl finds out you have a crush on her, she’s going to be scared away and start thinking you’re a pest or a stalker. You must only let her know you like her when you can confirm she likes you already. If not, she’s going to run. This is not unlike using the Pokeball to catch a Pikachu. You must first damage it to a certain threshold.

5. Make her chase you instead.
Combine this with the point above. The success rate of getting attached goes up tremendously when the girl is the one doing the chasing. You can achieve this effect by using the above tips, and then she’ll feel like she’s not going to get you. Sooner or later, she’s going to crack from the pressure and decide that to obtain happiness, she needs to take the initiative. And when she does, it’s time for the Pokeball.

6. Do not buy her expensive gifts or overdo the romantic gestures.
I suppose some types of girls do require such gifts but I’m not interested in those. For the regular girl in her teens or early twenties, she does realise that material wealth is not that important. Yet. Guys who splurge on 999 roses for Valentines’ Day, offer to see her home despite that adding 2 hours to his travelling time, and paying for expensive dinners, think they can score points from those. Little do some of them know that they can only score points if the girl is already in love with them. If the girl thinks of them as FM, then she will more likely feel pressured and intimated. She will start discussing your overeagerness with her female friends and classifying you as a stalker. And then the more of these romantic gestures you perform, the more she’ll be scared of you and repulsed by it. No, she doesn’t think you are being sweet, you are just being creepy. YET, if you’re the boyfriend, then you score lots of points for exactly the same gestures. Amazing right?

So, do you get it now, Owen S? And DrmChrso? Btw, these knowledge come from a variety of sources. I thank my best friend, who’s a girl. You should only treat girls well and without any of these techniques if you really want to be platonic best friends and nothing more.

38 Responses to “OtaGirls Cont.! Why Best Friends Get No LOVE! And 6 Tips to Become Boyfriend Material!”


  • Apart from the thoroughly distracting pictures @_@ (big fan of Range), good stuff. It’s all pretty logical stuff. Although of course you can always tailor the package to the type of girl you’re after.

  • meganeshounen

    Another interesting piece of work here. Thought-provoking.

    This’ll come in really handy for me, seriously. thx

  • As much as I hate to admit that you’re right, this post explains a recent and rather unfortunate RL dorama incident regarding some girl I know, or knew. Interesting.

    Also, how much of this is taken from the ladder theory?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladder_theory

  • How.

    Annoying.

    True.

    Gargh..

  • You two articles on this topic are rather interesting. I guess it’s more difficult for me to agree with some points since I am an otagirl and my relationships sort of went the opposite way than what you describe. For example I used to talk about my love problems all the time with my current bf before we got together. He was my best friend but eventually I fell for him. It’s the same case for a lot of your other points (and not just with my current relationship), but there are always going to be exceptions so I’m not saying your points aren’t valid. In any case very nice article.

  • Hm, I’ve never classified guys based on how useful they are or anything, and honestly, I’ve never seen another girl do that either (then again, none of my friends are shallow loser females). In fact, my current boyfriend of six months was what you’d classify as ‘friend material’ for quite a bit before we started going out (if only because when I wanted to ask him out, I’d get a moemoe blush on my face and hauauau~ myself into not doing it). Though I can say with absolute confidence that I never treated him like trash like the chicks you describe in your article.

    I think that if you’ve found a girl that’ll take advantage of you and only go out with you when you’re putting up a facade of ~sexiness~, that relationship won’t have much staying power. I definitely agree that you can’t be too nice or too eager to a girl when you’re not going out yet, but you really can’t be too undereager, either. I think not letting yourself be stepped all over is more important than anything, honestly.

    On that note, how I want to be treated by my partner? With respect. I don’t like clothes (in fact, I’M the one with the COSPA shirts), and I don’t like boybands, and I don’t want to be treated like a retard when I haven’t had enough time to prove to someone that I’m a retard yet.

    I think that there should be a friendship aspect so that you both can sort out whether you can get along with each other, and then whoever develops feelings should put the other person in a position where it’d be easy to say, “lol i liek u mayb i shuld tk u 2da bar|?” I definitely agree with you on that. Or! It doesn’t seem that hard to casually say, “Want to grab some coffee sometime?” or something, which makes it clear that you’re interested, but you haven’t embarrassed yourself by saying, “OMG I LOVE YOU PLEASE GO OUT WITH ME KUDASAI~”

    The bottom line? Relationships are damn complicated: APPROACH WITH CAUTION.

    And yeah, I do write like a man, don’t I?

  • Ouch… Melonpan HP 0/500

  • Damn, I´m FM, but when I started out, that was what I was aiming for so I relaly can´t say I´m that terrified. And having broken almost everything on that list on what “not” to do well I´m a friend and will continue to be one.

    Still, someone out there is waiting for me :p

    Nice to read and nicely written.

  • Your 6 tactics listed here are all valid. Nevertherless, I feel I need to defend the points I raised.

    1. Be nice and kind to her: Rudeness never works — Noone disagreed about this yet, and it is not good to be rude to anyone, anyway. —

    2. Pay attention to her words and acts: You must alway keep her in your sight. — I never said you have to let her know that you are always paying attention to her. What really is important is that you have to constantly look for that opportunity which will make the female think you’re special, and those opportunities are rather rare. This is the reason why ‘Luck’ triumphs even over money. I still remember the sentence from the book “Taran Wanderer”: ” Luck is looking!” —

    3. Help her out whenever possible in things she wants, in ways she tells you: There must be real benefit for her to be hanging around with you. — By no mean I meant become Kitagawa Jun to Misaka Kaori. If you barely know the girl, in fact, it will be hard to find a chance to help the girls, unless you offer your help to any girl you meet, which would also mean that you won’t be helping a certain girl often. If you think even harder, helping her with even the smallest task is not helping her in long term; you may prevent the girl from learning to do the task herself, which can lead to serious problem. There are somethings she must do that she cannot start doing alone, and that is where you can offer real, lasting help. No way a guy should refuse such a chance for that special girl, for if you succeed in helping her accomplish that important thing, she cannot help thinking about you every time she is involved or near that important thing. How can you start any relationship if she doesn’t even know you exist? The problem is, it will be very rare to encounter her in situation where she truly needs help, and you won’t find this situation unless you always have an eye or an ear for her, as in my #2.Finally, helping any girl whenever opportunity presents will let you easily satisfy TJ’s tip #10 ‘Finally, get to know as many girls as you can.’ —

    4. Be prepared: You must be prepared for any unexpected event. This can really impress the girls. — I just don’t see how not being prepared can help you in any way. —

    5. Build up good resume: In end you must have the money. There exist only one thing more powerful than money when it comes to winning girls’ hearts, and you have no control over that ( It is called ‘Luck’ ) — Nobody disagreed here, and in end it is all about money, even for our anime habits. —-

  • This article, and the comments, are very, very interesting. I’m the “take it as it comes” type of guy, though, so I live by this: “Love is unpredictable!”

  • Once again, your posts baffle me.

  • OW MAH NUTBLADDER

    …I mean, nice arti-

    Graildarnit. Range Murata made my nutbladder go boom.

  • Point 6 is extremely difficult IMO, I’ve never been able to archieve this purpose. Girls lost interest on me when trying to make chase me. Something went wrong and never know what :S. I’m still trying to figure it!

  • Someone needs to write a follow-up post on how to make a 2D girlfriend.

  • how about being gentlemanly.
    thats impt too. un-gentlemanly singaporean guys are a bunch

  • Somehow, RIUVA has turned into a romance advice blog. Good thing I’m not interested in pursuing relationships (for all sexes, mind you).

  • True true. I lost my best friend cause i went from FM to BFM and then to FM again. And the funny thing is, she was chasing me, stopped, i chased her, stopped, congregate, break apart. Heh.

  • This article may well be the best insight into female psychology I have yet seen. Take it from a guy who just scored a girl.

  • *waves female banner*

    Look. The bottom line is that relationships are complicated, and they won’t work if you’re simply basing them on what you find to be desirable traits. Because… ultimately, for every one or two good traits in a person, there’s another ten annoying flaws, bad habits, and neuroses to go with them, and you will go batshit trying to ignore them, especially if you’re focusing solely on the physical. And they will go nuts trying to ignore yours.

    Relationships based on compatibility tend to last far longer, and honestly, are more fulfilling and satisfying. Having something in common with the person you’re dating/getting married to/sleeping with/whatever, helps, but, you also have to *like* that other person. Granted, physical attraction is good- it helps to solder a relationship together, but, you have to also have similar interests, wants, likes, and dislikes.

    Another key component in *ANY* relationship is being comfortable in your own skin. We don’t really care for men who aren’t comfortable with themselves. It’s called self-confidence, and we *do* like you to have some. I’m not saying that you’ve got to have an ego the size of the Empire State Building, but, it’s nice if you’re at least comfortable with yourself and being by yourself. Trust me, we *like* it when you’re not breathing over our shoulders every five seconds.

    Some co-dependency in a relationship… is healthy, to an extent. You love that other person, fine. However, when you’re basically using that other person to validate *your* ends, well, things don’t always turn out so well. This goes back to the self-confidence thing. We don’t want to be able to walk all over you. Stick up for yourself. Seriously, it lets us know that you’ve got a pair and no, you won’t take our shit, just like we won’t take yours. When a woman realizes that you’re going to let her walk all over you, one of two things will usually happen- she’ll either drop you like a rock, and you go back to being friend material, or, she’ll use you to satisfy her own ends. I’m not saying that you don’t have to be nice– we do like nice guys, but, seriously, don’t take it too far either.

    Money doesn’t always matter to us- however, keeping promises does. If you promise to do something, it’s better if you don’t renege. We’re not all gold-diggers. However, we do appreciate the occasional gift once in a while. It doesn’t have to be expensive or elaborate. A dozen roses and a bottle of wine is just as good as a cheap box of chocolates and a copy of ‘Robin Hood: Men in Tights’ and a night in with our S.O. with no distractions.

    The bottom line: Be confident in yourselves, don’t focus purely on the physical aspects of a relationship, find something in common with that other person, and don’t spend every waking second focusing all of your waking attention on them. Just a few tips.

  • as a single from birth till now, this is something quite interesting. and it points out which points i should improve on. i’ve always seen couples going around and it makes me wonder, how or what does the guy say to get the girl. But your article here provides another insight of how they got together. Hiaz~~ lot’s of hardwork if i wanna get one. of cos, discarding my otaku side for her shouldn’t be hard. XD but then again, i will be serving the government (army) next year..so..might pass getting one… and I think the army did a great job in telling us that “hey, you serve the army not only for your country, it’s for your loves one too.” So, it might not be a bad idea to get one before NS.. one more purpose in army/life!!!

  • Tiny: During NS, I had time to date more compared to when I was in school. This is because in NS, there are no long term goals, and you live life just trying to waste time.

    Mick: You are absolutely 10000 percent right. Your comment eloquently provides a great female POV foil to the original post and is always what I consider the shortcomings to my methods. My best friend actually told me the same thing especially the first two paragraphs, ok she tells me every week and hopes to beat some sense in me. Yeah.

    Astrobunny: Pics please.

    Kouji: Why? That shouldn’t happen.

    gaaa: I like ungentlemenly Singaporean guys. Why? They prop us, the better ones, up and make us look good.

    Marmot: You really do talk like a guy online. I think you’re an exception, not the norm, and for every Marmot type girl theres probably 100 normal otagirls.

    Nyx: Ditto. The more regular otagirls/girls wouldn’t read this blog.

  • *Possesses physical and mental female characteristics*

    >>1. Do not listen to her whine about her old lovers, love problems or other guys.

    I can’t really comment on this, because the only time I’ve ever really discussed my love-life with a guy was when he brought it up. True. He got major points for guts and being observant of the situation I was in.

    >>Girls generally have no interesting topics to discuss, besides clothes and boybands.

    Lolwhat? I like clothes as much as the next girl, but I don’t do the boyband thing at all. Music may come up in conversation, but I’ll stay on the topic of the actual music, and not how sexy the band members at. And I’m sure as hell not going to talk about clothes much, because that’s just boring.

    >>2. Do not praise her too much. Keep it minimal.
    >>3. Be funny (to her).

    So very true. I’d much rather hear a guy’s jokes than have him telling me I’m pretty seven million times a day.

    >>4. Always, at all costs, do not let her know about your crush on her.

    I’m more likely to like a guy who shows some sort of interest in me. I don’t like it when a crush is shoved in my face, but I’m probably not going to notice if guys don’t give some sort of subtle hints, weather it be by offering to help me with something or just happening to chose to sit next to me in a restaurant. I’m a pretty shy person if I don’t know someone well, so I’m not likely to make the first move.

    >>5. Make her chase you instead.

    Bah. True, but it sucks for the chaser. Plus there’s the chance that she’ll think you aren’t interested and decide to move on. Continue to hint that you’re interested in her.

    >>6. Do not buy her expensive gifts or overdo the romantic gestures.

    True, true, true. Romantic gifts like roses are sweet sometimes, but expensive and die quickly. Chocolate is yummy and lovely, but too much will make you fat. If you want to do something nice for a girl, buy her something cheap and relevant to both of your interests. For a real life example: my boyfriend and I spend a lot of time in the bookstore on our dates, browsing the manga section. :3 A while back, he bought me the second volume of Welcome to the NHK, which he then borrowed a few days later.

    Never try to woo a girl you aren’t dating with really expensive things. You will only come off looking like you’re trying to buy your way into her pants, and she and her friends will spend hours mocking you for being a complete dumb-ass.

  • lian: why are we not surprised that you are surprised?

  • the picture ARE throughly distracting.

    and interesting post. cheers.

    /me cant wait to hit on the freshmen girls this fall. mwahahaha XP

  • If it happens, it happens.

    Why try to act like a Hungarian Horntail when you’re actually just a…. Pygmy Puff?

    Pardon the Potter analogy.

  • Romance spawns from perspective, not gestures.
    TJ Han is completely right when he said in #6 that the same set of gestures can either be creepy or score you points depending on whether you are BFM or FM.

    Women DO NOT find anything you do romantic unless they were interested in you in the first place. Refrain from cliche things like buying girls’ drinks at a club…If you were a good-looking alpha male, you wouldn’t have to.

    I totally understand women. I really do. It’s just a shame that I do not follow tip #10 of part 1.

  • @weew Weew.

    @tjhan You’re good at getting girlfriends, but find it hard to maintain them.

  • This is so brilliant. I especially enjoyed the pokeball analogy.

  • >>4
    An extremely sad but true. Awesome fusion of humor and logic.

  • So very large pics so very little paragraphs interspersed between. o_o

    Nice aggressive post. :P

  • Awesome post, I think i’ve done all that i shouldn’t have done, that explain why i’ve been rejected and stayed a FM
    Thanks a lot for these advices, i’ll use them for sure!

  • Zeouterlimits

    Just browsing different blogs and found yours.
    Found the articles you’ve written about this really interesting.

    Gah, I’ve no self-confidence. Or tact.
    Damn women :-/

  • I just read this article and i quite agree with what you have wrote.

    I am trying to follow the advice here.. but there are some factors that are hindering me.
    One main thing is lack of confidence.

    and the question is
    How are we suppose to know whether the girl likes you too?
    What should we look out for?

  • Noob: There are many subtle hints, which you should look out for. They agree to hang out with you, they call or message you for no reason, they attempt to touch your hair or hand or whatever etc. It’s quite subtle but be observant and you’ll notice that she’s behaving in a manner different from what you might expect a normal girl to.

  • Yeah some points are true but some are not in general principle.

  • … T_________T
    This post (found randomly through Google) stepped on the remains of my broken heart.

    *recently broke rule number 4 through rule number 6*

  • My friend just admitted to liking me and I’ve been calling him a stalker…. i think ill show him this!!

  • Nice blog, I like it, but it looks a little strange while using opera browser, keep it going:)

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