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Exclusive: The Vision of Odexflowne

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Despite the terribly irresistible pun of a title, this article aims to bring to light what Odex, at least officially, aims to achieve. This is the story from their Point of View.

I repeat, it’s their story, I have fabricated or modified nothing.

I met Peter Go, director of Odex, at about 9 pm, on a weekday. We went to a certain 24hour prata store, where he ordered a couple of drinks. Armed with a large notepad and a pen, a relic of my days as an army journalist, I listened attentively as Peter talked endlessly about his company, how fansubs were destroying the anime industry and what Odex was doing to counter the situation. It is obvious Peter is an anime fan - he has seen far more than most of you have. Except that for him, anime isn’t just a hobby, it’s his livelihood.

As anyone who has turned their hobby into a full-job would know, it is not easy to balance love and money. I would know, I worked in a figure store, where I had to sell people bad figures at high prices, despite them being fellow figure fans. I quit within a month. Even the esteemed RJC blogger, Darkmirage, told Peter Go to just fold his company, for anime is not the most lucrative of businesses and should be left as a hobby. But Odex still stands. Perhaps it could be seen as a testament to the strength of their love for anime. Or perhaps it’s just for money. While we won’t truly know, due to their secretive nature, I would like to share some of what I heard from him.

The central belief Peter holds is that an anime fan is one who gives back as much as he takes from the anime industry. That is the hallmark of a true fan. In other words, a free-loading downloader is not an anime fan. Animators in Japan slog for peanuts, because of their love for anime, bringing us the shows we enjoy. Watching it legally on TV in Japan and even here helps them, for it increases ad revenue. Buying DVDs, merchandise and others also help them. But downloading for free does not return anything to the industry and this is a form of theft, according to Peter. He has visited almost all the anime studios in Japan and is on close terms with the directors of a few like Sunrise (explains why ALL Sunrise anime are on the AVPAS list). He recalled that he wept when he first saw the working conditions of the animators, such was the harshness.

If you have lots of love for anime, channel it in the right places, Peter exclaimed. The days of fansubs being promotion material are long gone. Nowadays, they are more harm than good, people are not buying DVDs because they already have obtained the shows via illegal downloads. Peter believes he is a far greater anime fan than all the freeloaders because of what he has done for the local scene, and truth be told, he may be right. There is now a huge amount of anime shown on TV, many casual fans buy VCDs of anime legally and all these can be attributed to Odex obtaining the rights to these anime. Just a few years back, it was not possible to purchase such a wide variety of anime titles from retail stores. While there was anime on TV, it wasn’t shown in such great numbers.

The huge rise in anime popularity is noticeable in our daily lives. Even the least likely of people have watched anime. There’s this sweet statistics girl, who looks more attuned to the likes of studying than that of Inuyasha, but she is a fan of the latter. Almost all the guys watch anime. But the problem is, such popularity is not being reflected proportionately in terms of revenue collected by both the distributors and the studios. For that, Peter blames the downloads. Downloaders do not contribute to the economy of the anime industry, he stressed.

So what is Odex’s ultimate aim in stamping out the culture of downloading anime?

Peter wanted to keep this a secret, because he felt nobody would believe him, such is how seemingly impossible it sounds. But here it goes. He wants to see a unique Singaporean anime culture, one which is totally free of piracy, illegal downloads and 100 percent friendly to the Japanese studios. Most other countries cannot achieve this because of their geographical dispersion and lack of strong policing, but Singapore being so tiny and manageable, is a unique country able to attain this culture. So what happens when an entire nation is free of piracy and supports legal purchases of anime?

The Japanese studios would cease to think of Singapore as a small market and would reward us accordingly. Now that anime is so widespread, with the resulting high demand for legal goods, there would be much economies of scale and a subsequent lowering of prices. If Singapore is a big market, Singaporeans would have much clout with the Japanese studios and we will soon start seeing special Singapore-only extras in anime, or even more Singaporean anime characters and settings. Not only those, we can start demanding for same-time releases of DVDs and airtime of episodes, and invite high profile staff and seiyuu down here. In a capitalist economy, money talks and if everyone got their anime via legal means, Singapore would be ahead of the other countries in terms of attractiveness to the Japanese studios.

Beyond all those, the localised anime culture would also support cosplay, arts, music and other aspects of anime fandom. If these are of a high enough standard, Peter even wishes to have them included as DVD extras in his products, for a local touch.

But of course, to achieve such an anime utopia would require the co-operation of both the anime-loving masses and the licensing company. It does seem like an impossible dream, what with the high-handed approach Odex is taking, and the juvenile cyber-terrorism undertaken by the online masses.

The dream does sound good, and it did bring a smile to my face as I heard it. Imagine the possibilities, like a female Gundam heroine who shouts, "Wah lau eh!" when her Merlion Gundam explodes! Hirano Aya coming to Singapore and performing in the indoor stadium! Anime DVDs of great quality for less than ten dollars! Watching the latest anime episodes on TV or VoD at the same time of Japanese releases, while the silly Americans struggle with their week-old fansubs! Sounds great right? But all that, apparently according to Peter, is dependant on whether we can generate that critical mass of anime demand needed for Japanese studios to take notice and care of us. And to do that, fansub downloads need to be eradicated.

So there you have it, it’s the vision of Odex. So what say you now?

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158 Responses to “Exclusive: The Vision of Odexflowne”  

  1. 1 Ascaloth 67 comments

    And his idea of achieving this anime utopia is to threaten to sue the panties off the mothers of 9-year-old otakus.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

    I’m in despair! The illogical logic of money-grubbing businessmen has left me in despair!!!

  2. 2 DrmChsr0 156 comments

    How extremely narrow-minded and blind he is to the truth.

    You get what you put in. And so far, the company in question has not been putting in anything but the merest obligations to the local market.

    Alas, when the truth is right at your doorstep and you refuse to even acknowledge it, it is very, very sad. It rang true 3 years ago, and it still rings tru today.

  3. 3 Kurogane 93 comments

    Visions are a good thing. Yet, vision itself cannot bring on the results.

    Mr. Peter here does have a good point and I would love to see it being realized, so that at the least I have a way to channel my love, legitimately.

    However, ODEX really has to change their self-defeatist attitude, legally suing fans who download whilst providing subpar quality merchandise is truly a mark of either stupidity or delusionism.

    Again, ODEX, concentrate on internal factors before going for external ones. Someone seriously needs to give them a wake-up call.

  4. 4 DrmChsr0 156 comments

    Kuro: The truth has been said.

    What we have right now is a case of a fan bearing all his legal and financial might at their disposal over a group of fans. It’s like taking your daddy’s .357 Magnum to a schoolyard fight. Extremely childish of the people in question to do this.

    Still, it’s really sad, isn’t it? People so blind to the truth to the point where only divine intervention couldn’t help them. How sad indeed.

  5. 5 pinkkatsyah 1 comment

    As much as I’d like the dream to come true, there will be a lot of snags they have to untangle. The current dissent among the major viewers of anime for one. I wonder how they are going to win back the trust of the people. A show of Gundam 00 a short while after it premiers on the Japanese TV? I’m not sure

    While I mull on the lack of dvd titles available, I do have to say that their titles (vcds included) are varied and with truly varied results. That in itself is another problem.

    I have a similar vision to Mr. Peter Go, but mine comes with the reactions of the people in mind. With the kind of people I want to bring into the scene: the non-chinese of the community. Bring them in, then you can bring anyone in.

  6. 6 Lss 3 comments

    read that central had listed gundam 00 to be broadcasted on october 10. it appears it was taken off shortly after. i wonder if its a slip of whats to come or just a mistake.

  7. 7 zs

    Odex has an overhead to meet. You demand xx yy for their releases, boycott them because they don`t have quality, slam them for that, and compare fansubs.

    Fansubs have a team of people who don`t sleep, and do it for their passion to release their stuff fast. But Odex cannot do the same, simply because they don`t have the manpower.

    Let`s take that the average fansub group has 10 people. When a raw is released, they work on it as a nonstop pipeline, some not sleeping for a few days. But that`s just 1 series, and Odex has a buttload of series. They can`t afford to do that for every series.

    Stephen Sing is probably an asshole for gloating over people, but you guys are calling for are like calling for a witchhunt just because a company is trying legally [and is justified] to protect its interest. Just as you would not walk off without paying after eating a bowl of noodles, I don`t see why you should be making so much noise over someone asking you to pay up after eating, regardless of how bad the food is.

  8. 8 Lss 3 comments
  9. 9 Aheda 7 comments

    The current problem ODEX is facing right now, IMO, is the overwhelming amount of speculated “Facts” that are floating around the internet.. “Facts” that influence the number of people who feel affected by the crackdown.

    From what I can tell, the largest cut of “double-6-ed pie” are probably students who didn’t know the copyright infringements of downloading fansubs and feel themselves victimized.. To these people, they don’t care about the quality of ODEX products vs Fansubs and they don’t care about DVD extras/merchandise/whatever.
    All they care about is that they thought they were watching some cool free Japanese show on the internet, but now they are at risk of being fined a very large sum of money. To them, they are the victims and they don’t know what to do.

    So these victims go online and what do they see? “ODEX IS MAKING 15 MILLION OUT OF THIS CRACKDOWN”, “STEPHEN SING REMORSELESSLY MOCKS THE PEOPLE SUED” “BURN YOUR ODEX PRODUCTS, SUPPORT THE ODEX REVOLUTION”.. Everything is being blown into unnecessarily dramatic proportions simply because a lot of idiots online are angry and haven’t the slightest clue as to how to deal with it.

    These “victims” are then misled into believing these claims and they spread the word.. Let’s face it. Number of people willing to believe wikipedia/TNP > number of people who know at least the slightest truth of the situation. With this kind of scenario, ODEX would be lucky to sell another product.. let alone fulfill their vision.

    From the very start I’ve said this. The anime community in Singapore not big enough to turn corporate heads or influence any decision. Right now, in order to achieve the kind of support they want. They need to be looking out for the ignorant, educating and nurturing them to know the rights and wrongs of their hobby.
    Instead, ODEX chose the “Ignorance is not an excuse” path and turned all of those who were “ignorant” into “victims” instead. Now that TNP has gotten wind of all this, its all over. What little hope of support that ODEX could have gathered from the general public has been lost. (BTW, by support, i mean the type of support ODEX needs to fulfill its vision)

    If this “vision” wasn’t kept such a big secret, ODEX wouldn’t have as much problems right now.
    At the very least, they’ll have something to fall back on against those who seem them as “money-grubbing-uncles”. There should be a fair number of anime fans who are willing to support their goal as well. Now with news of GUNDAM 00 hitting our screens so soon, it’ll be easy for them to enforce the claims in their vision as well.

    Too bad, most of it is gonna just fall on deaf ears. Man I talked too much again.

  10. 10 takumi2k4 2 comments

    While his vision sounds really interesting, it’s just a vision after all.

    @zs: It’s true that what they’re doing is somewhat justified, but would you go back to that same noodle stall later on, even knowing how bad the food is? That’s the case here with Odex, people know how sh*tty their products are, the “noise” they’re making is that of the quality of the product. Consumers are choosers after all.

    I’ve heard a lot of people saying that most of the fansubs have better quality than the VCD’s Odex puts out, and these fansubs are “free” yet fansubbers can achieve higher quality than a company that actually has people working for them. Peter Go maybe really passionate about anime, but sadly, his products prove otherwise.

    But I’m calling shenanigans on his “passion”, he needs his company to prove that their product isn’t as sh*tty, and hell, prove that their products are better than the R1 DVD’s, if that’s possible. :D Heh, if that happens, all hell will probably break loose.

  11. 11 leefe 11 comments

    IMHO Odex would definitely need more, faster, good quality releases. If they have too many products at the same time I don’t see why they cannot utilise internet resources to poll for the local community to see what series would be more favourable. Feels that Odex hasn’t invested in their PR departments eh?

    Though it’s a wonderful vision where people can watch anime just a few days later after the premiere in Japan, high-profile seiyuus are getting brought in for events (Hirano Aya FTW :3), but it wouldn’t really be justifiable for one to sue young kids, as young as 9 years old ~_~ Doing that it’s like killing your own customers. To generate a critical demand for anime you would need to provide up-to-par products FIRST. No one likes to buy some tattered boxset of badly subbed and dubbed Gundam SEED. Yes I actually bought them.

    Alternative approaches can be more community-friendly, like trying to reach the anime community with sessions to ask and inquire how to improve yourself, not reaching anime fans with letters of mad destruction. And I’ll be damned if I don’t mention how some anime fans DO buy official anime-related products. I’ve seen hordes of otakus sometimes swarming the local anime import shop to buy stuff about their favourite anime etc. I’m not saying it’s legal, but without those fansubs where would the market for such imports be? Kill off the local peoples’ contact with recent, decent anime and some businesses like KKnM will run into trouble. Japan don’t continue their old product lines for just the sake of Singapore. Maybe collaborating with them helps, you might never know. Referring to the US business models wouldnt be so bad either. The companies are pretty well acquainted with anime fans and fansub groups, and it’s definitely obvious their products are supported. They have stuff like AnimeExpo etc. In Singapore I was pretty pleasantly shocked to see Shakugan no Shana releases, though season 2’s due sometime soon.

    All in all, Odex can never run a business without support from customers. Never.

    Gawd Im ranting abit too much =X

  12. 12 omo 57 comments

    Cheaper and easier to just learn Japanese to go to japan than to pull with Odex’s vision. It’s gotten to the point where what sucks isn’t Singapore anime fans, but just Singaporeans. And this spend-happy sue-happy example is exactly what’s wrong with Singaporeans:

    “illegal downloads and 100 percent friendly to the Japanese studios. Most other countries cannot achieve this because of their geographical dispersion and lack of strong policing, but Singapore being so tiny and manageable, is a unique country able to attain this culture”

    LOL. I think I see where he’s going with it, but I think Singapore is probably too big for that to happen.

  13. 13 Crest 85 comments

    In what seems to be nothing but bad humour, I somehow saw a link between Mr Peter Go and Light Yagami from DeathNote. Why? I leave that to people to speculate.

    All this reminds me of Orwell’s 1984.

  14. 14 JL 2 comments

    Wow. Reading your post and your (or is it Peter Go’’s?) whole vision of a Singapore that works right alongside Japanese anime companies reminds me of a child’s. It has all the makings of a young boy who wants to change the world. Or in this case, the setup of Singapore’s anime industry. But sooner or later, when we eventually grow up, we realize that such thinking is too idealistic.

  15. 15 mushi 3 comments

    Somehow all these explanations, backlash and the like seems very tiring–only time will tell of what consequences will be brought out of this.

  16. 16 Orochi 26 comments

    Well, he could have took a look at Hong Kong and Taiwan, the closest and nearest in terms of fanbase, geographical, populations, political climate etc… and try to repeat how ACG culture played itself out.

    HK and TW had even more rampant piracy both digital and hardcopy wise. Yet their few legit distributor manage to stay in the market. They also manage to host their annual Comic and Animation festival and still invite a few guest in from Japan to draw the crowds from time to time.

    From what I see, we are already half way there with our cosplay events, only thing lacking is the scale of our own local comic industry and the iron fist that is the MDA and more recently, Odex.

    Might I remind everyone here that we manage to get Tomino, the old man behind Gundam, some years back ?

  17. 17 waista 10 comments

    That’s the most naive vision I have ever heard. It’s so ridiculous that I have to assume it’s the carrot. You already know the stick.

  18. 18 Asteroth 16 comments

    The recent Odex actions go against the abovementioned director’s own dillusional grand vision. They beheaded a budding fanbase in SG even before it matures. It is sad to see that being anime fans themselves, they are blinded to the situation they were once were, how they had started becoming an anime fan, at what condition and at what age.
    Perhaps becos the abovementioned director is a rich boy from a rich family that he is different from the rest and hence he cant grasp the situation. (It was said that he came from a rich China businessman family that own buildings, so dun play play)

    Odex directers, you were students went u first became anime fans, most of the people u catch now are oso students, these people are going to grow up one day and have purchasing power ok, and may encourage their kids to watch anime unlike our gen of parents.

    Do we really have alot more anime aired on TV compared to the past, not really, 2 per wkend is nothing compared to atleast 2 per day in HK/TW, and dun even bother comparing to Japan. Not only that, we used to have 2 per Mon/Tue late nite in the early 90s, when XY is still serving is NS.
    So do we really have alot more anime on air, answer is definite NO NO unless we factor in Animax.

    Next is one of the most dulan thing, what Odex did is basically going to kill the ‘cant-even-be-considered-as-budding’ anime figurine industry in Singapore. KNN!!!!!

  19. 19 Ascaloth 67 comments

    “But all that, apparently according to Peter, is dependant on whether we can generate that critical mass of anime demand needed for Japanese studios to take notice and care of us. And to do that, fansub downloads need to be eradicated.”

    To be honest, I don’t see the logic in this at all. How does eradication of fansub downloads = increased generation of demand towards the critical mass? How did he come to the conclusion that “The days of fansubs being promotion material are long gone”? How does he believe that using the stick on an online community would create “an entire nation is free of piracy and supports legal purchases of anime”? And his insistence on his own company being the “right place” to “channel” “lots of love for anime”? Sounds suspiciously like a pastor proclaiming that his church is the only true way to faith, to me.

    Sounds nice, but I’m not buying it. The whole thing smacks of a lot of spin, but not much substance to me.

  20. 20 naive 6 comments

    It’s good that actually peter has a long term vision of developing anime in sg. But theory does deviate far from reality; instead of embracing a “soft” approach to educate singaporean anime viewers and fans, some wanker with surname Sing rubbed plenty of salt onto the wound, further alienating singapore anime community.
    Either there’s something wrong with odex or singaporean culture of “cheap is good, free is best”

  21. 21 HH 4 comments

    He’s so naive if he thinks fining people and eradicating fansubs are the way to realising his dream. And if he really thinks for the benefit of the community why does he still fine people who’ve already stopped downloading when they knew of the letters? All the others one sided “facts” that he gave the newspapers dont help as well.

  22. 22 Wreckidigidy 6 comments

    Why didn’t Peter stated this vision when he first started ODEX back in the late 1990s?

    Back then when fansubs was starting to be rampant on IRC and internet was still an ailing medium of entertainment in Singapore due to the slow dial-up connection a handful of households possess, ODEX should had hit the iron when it’s hot…

    They produced a few good anime series like “Outlaw Star”, “Love Hina”, “Boys Be”, “Vision of Escaflowne” etc and me and my anime-loving buddies were prompt to support to appease our anime addiction…

    However they should have foresee the progress of the internet medium, and thrash out video on demand or something (sure ftp was common back then) and prompt to get anime series from their self-claimed well connected Japanese anime studios…

    They could have even employed some promising fansub groups to do the quality subbing and start selling anime episodes via the VOD platform before d/ling of fansubs poliferate into the malignant state as it is today….

    If they had inculcated the culture back then when they had the chance, they would not transform into this company that everyone loathes…

    As stated, his vision surely is a good 7-8 years late and damage had been done in terms of their quality, company policy and marketing/publicity….
    Good luck to haul budding anime lovers in the future, ‘cos those who enjoyed anime between these 7 years or so and totally disgusted by the recent saga would surely not be part of his vision…

  23. 23 DarkMirage 18 comments

    He said it himself that freeloaders are not true anime fans.

    If you enforce the law so strictly that anime can only be obtained through legitimate means, the freeloaders will simply stop watching anime.

    How many will be left? Not enough to make his dream reality I’d say.

  24. 24 tj_han 896 comments

    DM: Can I touch your hand?

    Wreckgiddingly: I think it’s their mindset. Their staff have this “no comment” policy when in basic PR, we all know that no comment is equals to EVIL. Look at the Exxon Valdez disaster, where Exxon gave an initial “no comment” which enraged many people worldwide, resulting in irreparable damage to its image. Thankfully for them, oil is a necessity and people will still buy from them. Odex, on the other hand, sells anime, which is an elastic good.

    Orochi: HK and Taiwan has downward spiralling problems, especially in recent years. Ok I shall comment on the rest later, need to go to school.

  25. 25 Zer0 70 comments

    In terms of mathematics, Singapore will never be a big enough market that’s worth the attention of the Japanese animation studios. The catchment area is the whole of Southeast Asia’s middle income class - spanning from Jakarta through Kuala Lumpur to Bangkok. With our tiny 4million population, we are not even worth peanuts when compared to the aggregate purchasing power of the bigger cities even if we have a high GDP per capita.

    Even if ODEX can tighten the control of anime download in Singapore, it won’t change anything in terms of $$$ for the Japanese animation studios. The leak isn’t in Singapore. It’s in cities where there’s rampant piracy - i.e. commercially distributed bootlegs.

    ODEX’s indirect regulation of the local anime scene (”you can only watch what we put on the shelf”) will only breed an inbred society of otaku/anime fans with consumer choice limited by what ODEX dictates.

    KNNBPCB. Peter Go thinks ODEX is the PAP ah? Pui.

    Peter Go ought to wake up and smell the kau sai. His totalitarian approach in achieving his utopia is no different from Pol Pot’s scorched earth policy of rebuilding the Cambodian society. He’s misguided. He’s no Anita Roddrick. His sense of activism and profit motives don’t mix.

    Anyway, JOIN THE PEOPLE’S ACTION FIGURES PARTY!!

    Check out this OP-ED article “Are anime providers stretching the law?” from Today Online.

  26. 26 naive 6 comments

    And there’s this problem with BOFC and MDA censoring (and banning) many imported anime dvds.
    What kind of democratic country does this?
    The govt talk about supporting creativity and buying original stuff. But then, they ban some imported LEGAL dvds. PPl buy original R1 n R2 from overseas because you can’t find them in sg and they are packed with freebies (and hence worth every penny).
    Odex should think of how to make themselves more competitive instead of forcing anime community in sg to buy odex’s inferior products.

  27. 27 Wavedash 3 comments

    Being unfamiliar with the situation of anime in Singapore (aside from what minor bit I’ve read on this site) I cannot comment on the feasability of his grand vision.

    But I do think that his dream sounds too fantastical in any case. I highly doubt Japan would tailor much of their anime just to fit the needs of one outside group. I’ve heard from John Ledford, the CEO of ADV, that America probably accounts for about 20% of anime’s profits. But does that mean we see any more American pandering in their products?

    On another note, even if his vision came true, I would never want to visit Singapore. An entire country that could support such a critical mass would be a cesspool of otaku…and that would be awful.

  28. 28 Kouji 38 comments

    DARKMIRAGE HAS SPOKEN!

    ALL HEIL DARKMIRAGE!

    /me heils

  29. 29 Seth 70 comments

    Fuck this shit. What does tripeman think?

  30. 30 Elydis 30 comments

    Blehx it is the mindset of the singaporeans, blame the education system for creating zombies.

  31. 31 tragic comedy 5 comments

    it can come true. all it needs is a nudge in the right direction from the right people.

  32. 32 Beowulf 8 comments

    Dear Peter Go,

    Whatever you’re smoking, please let me have some. KTHXBAI.

  33. 33 Zebra 4 comments

    sigh, well the truth is that odex has such a bad image to the general public that it is almost impossible for them to regain support from the people anytime soon. Stephen Sing’s gloating was the icing on this cake.
    Not to mentioned, Odex has not explained how they have been utilizing the compensation they received, which many do know that it is no small sum of money. The announcement that they’ll be releasing haruhi and their release of Dgrayman would only lead to speculations that Odex is only hunting people down to get funds. The behavior of we otakus, will force them to continue to hunt down downloaders and may even force then into taking legal action.if you do not know, the penalty for illegal downloading is 10K PER INFRINGING ARTICLE. Odex’s demanded compensation is obversely much less. Well, i am not siding with odex, but i believe that the solution to this issue is only through communication. Odex has to know our demands and work to meeting it, while we have to understand the structural limitations of their company, and also give them time to change. As things proceed, all will lose out in the long run, and i implore those reading my comment to have a more mature mindset when viewing this issue, since legally and morally speaking, the illegal downloaders are in the wrong, regardless of our claims of odex’s faults. I do apologize if my comment anger you and Tj han, sorry for using your blog like this.

  34. 34 hitoshura 7 comments

    You know… dreams are good.

    very good.

    but having Singapore the anime utopia is totally impossible.

    Before getting rid of piracy, get rid of censorship. IMO, censorship is what encourages piracy, since it prevents anyone from getting their wanted media, pushing them to attain it from other sources. Most of you would have heard that MDA just gotten more rampart in their intercepting of imported goods and watching it to see if it’s SAFE before they call you to come down and pick it up while paying them viewing fees, so tell me how we are gonna get anime like elfen lied here for example.

    They want a singapore anime, yeah sure, and MDA sponsors it, and we would have some super lame soap operas you get on channel 8 and U, having focus on various couples with freaking stereotypical family problems. OR some lame army propaganda crap series, take your pick, lol.

    Peter should just leave Japan alone man, he is just disgracing himself and pushing his connections. And at the rate he’s going now, his dreams just got shattered long ago, when his underdog, the awesome stephen, posted some lame remarks on august 1st then claim that he post it 2 months ago on a august 15th newpaper report.

    Awesome no?

    Alot of anime fans say that ppl threathening to harm SS puts the anime community in a bad light, but i say SS’s actions and how the company habits of covering lies with more lies does a bigger effect in shaming our community, since he did admit he’s a otaku -_-

  35. 35 Silverwolf X

    Look at it this way. if their ‘dream’ comes true, Singapore will be a hub for legal but brutally censored and limited Anime.

    I’ve always stressed that something needs to be done with the idiots at MAD/BOFC.

    I’ve lost like $500 worth of US Anime VHS to those retards back in the past. I’m still sore about it.

  36. 36 JS 81 comments

    And yet again, the DM hath spoken.

    Well, at least they’re getting one of my hopes fufilled: subbed anime getting here faster. I was shocked when I read that DGrayMan and Gundam 00 was going to be aired on Arts Central(especially the fact that Gundam 00 is gonna be aired just days after the Japan air date). And if the quality of the subs are good, that’s another of my hopes fufilled.

  37. 37 useract75 11 comments

    First, thanks to tjhan for reporting the other side of the coin. It made me feel much better knowing that the two founders of Odex are fans themselves.

    But I’m having trouble deciding what to make out of Peter’s alleged “dreams”. I’ve narrowed myself to two possibilities.

    (1) Either he’s crazy enough to believe in them, or
    (2) he’s stupid enough to think fans would buy his lies.

    Of course, he might be exercising reverse psychology, but I’m an optimist and I prefer to believe in the good of others. So let’s assume his dreams are genuine. However, his recent antics have changed the probability of attaining his dreams, from an absymal infinitesimal to an absolute zero. What made him think suing the pants off hundreds, potentially thousands, of fellow fans would aid his dreams? Why didn’t he post to forums and urge fans to buy original DVDs? Why didn’t he hold seminars to educate fans? Why the covert actions? Why didn’t they stay in touch with fans?

    These are burning questions I would’ve asked him. Why didn’t tjhan pose these questions to him?

    On a side note, I couldn’t help but LOL at Wavedash’s comments. If SG really had enough anime fans to make Japan sit up and notice us, it’d be chilling to imagine all the otakus in our country.

    Anyway, thanks for the report.

  38. 38 Mitsuki_Hayase 174 comments

    @Crest Agreed. This smacks of the inflammatory speeches made by leaders of totalitarian regimes back in the 1930s.

    @tjhan Wow I see Peter conveniently forgets the spillover effects fansubs has had on related industries, like figurines etc.. Just because his company is too lazy to exert the rights to distribute them.

    And as usual, I see the government being dragged in here. Seems like a case of “fuck you government”, whether they are involved or not. Grow up, kids.

    I love the “dream”. I mean, after the witchhunt, and everyone watching anime is doing so legally, the Japanese companies will probably grin at him, pat him on the back; AND INCREASE THE LICENSING FEES FOR FUTURE ANIME. After all, now that everyone has to watch anime legally, sales and revenue ought to skyrocket no?

    @Wavedash Agreed with you. I mean, I can’t imagine my PM talking about the latest episode of Gurren Lagann, and going “This is the kind of attitude we need guys!” I mean, its cool, its good, but at the same time, its fucked up.

  39. 39 Sebastian W. 1 comment

    It would be great if the Japanese anime Studios could unite and create an online plattform like itunes for anime. They should simply release an episode 24 hours after its “TV” release for purchase/rent with english subtitles. That way they could reach the entire planet of hardcore fans, and bypass all the middlemen like ADV and ODEX and retain 100% of the revenue. How expenisve can it be to subtitle an anime into english before it released to Japanese/world audience? I am sure it would not increase production costs significantly.
    While most national markets are not big and intresting enough (like Netherlands and Germany, it takes years should an anime become available) successful animes could still be syncronized into the local language if there is enough demand.

    It is really amazing how slow companies like I.G are with online distribution.

  40. 40 homeless_homo 37 comments

    What I want to know is, will people really buy a show on DVD/VCD or w/e it is in Singapore without first having watched the show with fansubs?

    I know that I certainly wouldn’t have bought my FLCL DVD’s or my Love Hina DVD’s / Manga if I didn’t first watch / read it from fansubs.

    If I could only buy DVDs to watch anime, I don’t think I’d buy any, even if someone gives me a really good recommendation before hand. I’m not one of those cheap bastards out there who burn entire series onto dvds and keep them in storage. I buy things I like. But stopping illegal downloads will just make them lose more money. The cheap bastards downloading fansubs won’t change their ways and buy from Odex, and the ones who do actually buy dvd’s currently will have no reference material to guide their purchases in the first place.

    This entire “vision” of his seems flawed from my point of view.

  41. 41 Crest 85 comments

    What’s terrible with people who have seemingly unchecked power? Those in that group with a god-complex. Well I guess most of us do, it’s those who can’t be controlled that’s terrifying.

    Back to the idea of Japanese Animation Studios uniting to release their content bypassing any middleman or secondary producers is pretty implausible in my opinion, that’s because to setup such a thing would require comparable infrastructure to make it viable on a commercial level for distribution won’t be an easy task.

    Not treading the tired path whether anime downloaders being real anime fans or not, one thing’s very certain. The awareness level of japanese animation will drop much without these illegal means of dissemination of content, I dont think the anime community is willing to be a glass utopia.

    People will choose their own way in expression and living, be it how retarded and silly it is. And that’s something that even Odex will find it difficult to change. People can be cowered but to take away the freedom of choice and change is much harder.

  42. 42 zs

    Peter Go is right in saying that the era where fansubs being used to help spread popularity is over. In general, anime is quite an open hobby and not as obscure as it used to be back in the early 90s. Comparatively, it`s a lot easier to obtain legally, albeit with questionable quality.

    When studios look to see for a big market, they don`t go by number of downloads or anime watchers, they gun for sales figures. If the sales figures blow, it`s obviously not a market.
    Some people buy after they watch it on fansubs, but not everyone does. In fact, most do not. And most of them who do not don`t even bother to post on RIUVA, or DarkMirage`s boards, just HWZ to bitch about the situation.

    And with regard to no comments and PR, not talking is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes, the more you say, the bigger the situation. Stephen Sing`s post is probably prime example.
    If you just shut up and let the issue blow over, people will get tired of beating the dead horse. It`s just like a bully, if he manages to provoke a response out of you, he`ll definitely keep going. If he doesn`t, he`ll probably just get tired of you and piss off.
    Jeff Williams was an ex employee of Rock Star games, I`ll quote him on this:
    `One thing I learned working at Rockstar is that the best way to handle controversy is to keep your mouth shut. When I was there, we had a small but really smart PR team of just two people - call them “Sid” and “Mark”. Sid ran the operation and he knew that cardinal rule. Most controversies will blow over. Saying anything, no matter how well-intentioned, will just fan the flames.`

  43. 43 l-lawliet 17 comments

    I spoke to stephen sing like a month ago.
    And according to him. The jap companies do not really trust the VOD format.
    Cause they feel if they do so, eventually people would still upload those vids and let people download them.
    Which makes no diff from the current situation.

  44. 44 Shadowlite 2 comments

    Well, I can’t really see that Mr Goh is trying to fulfill this so called ‘dream’ of his. Especially with all those high handed methods Odex has been using against downloaders. This is basically a total contradiction to his ‘dream’.

    1st, about fansub being promotional material of the past. How, may I ask, that anime fans of Singapore get to know about a particular show? I dun really believe that there will be much pple from his ‘ideal utopia’ who would do so. I must remind that anime is not like movies, where u can go to the cinema and watch, and buy the dvds later when they are out. Would anyone buy a anime dvd box that they have never seen before? highly unlikely, even for those with much $$ to spare.

    2nd, blaming the drop in sales on the anime downloaders. Have odex really went to check and learn why is their sales dropping ? I doubt so, cause there’s a very easy target out there, which are the downloaders. It is very easy to blame everything on internet piracy, but at the end of the day, it does not really solve the problem if that is not the cause of the problem. Just by simply blaming everything on the anime downloaders and using high handed methods to ‘resolve’ the problem, is the problem really solved?

    Yes, there will be a decrease in download, and in the most extreme case, there will be no downloads. But remember this, to the freeloaders, even if you made them stop, does anyone really think they would go any buy legal products? The answer is no. To them, if they cannot download, they would just stop watching anime, end of story. They would never buy, since it was never in their mind to get original animes.

    On the other hand though, for the true anime fans, by doing this, they will be oppressed. And by using such high hand methods, would any sane person be willing to help Peter Goh in his dream? It’s like asking the Jews to help Hilter in accomplishing his goal, which is totally impossible.

    3rd, creating an anime community in Singapore. Is Odex trying to create an anime utopia in Singapore? From their actions, I dun think any rational person would believe so. From the lack of interaction with the anime community in Singapore, to the release of sub-standard products, to pass off fans’ complaint of product quality as ‘perception’ problems and now to the high handed method in dealing with them. It is instead clear that Odex is trying to kill the already small anime community in Singapore. Does anyone really think that people would still be fans after being fined a sum of 3.5-5k?

    If fansubs are really that ‘bad’ for the industry, why do fans continue to import DVDS like R1? God Knows how much of my ‘blood and sweat’ money goes to R1 and YesAsia.

    So rather than using such high handed methods to oppress customers/fans and potential ones, shouldnt Odex be trying for a customer-orientated approach? By involving into the community and getting customers interested, and of course, with quality controlled products, I believe fans like me will be more than willing to buy Singapore released DVDs. We need extras, we need good video and subs quality, we need good packaging, cause we are paying for it. Make your products such that we would want to buy, like how fans always get R1 DVDs even though they have watched the fansubs almost 1 year ago.

    Face it, fansubs are here to stay, instead of using high handed methods in which both parties will lose out, wouldnt it be better that Odex co-exist with fansubs and the community? Without fansubs, we wont know about your product, and with high handed methods, we would rather die than get your products.

    I sincerely hope that there will be a time when Odex, fans and fansubs co-exist peacefully, but if Odex continues their so called ‘justified’ high hand methods, I can just see the fall of Japanese animation in Singapore.

  45. 45 Aheda 7 comments

    Another problem with companies is that the term “quick fix” is not welcome.
    They do not want sure fire methods on small revenue.. They want solutions that will grant them the type of rewards that will make them rich..

    If they were to accept a small amount of revenue, like the type granted by VOD (as mentioned, eventually people will find ways of redistributing VOD files), visions like the ones Peter Go has may move forward.
    But no, they want a surefire way of ensuring a steady flow of revenue..

    This probably applies to a lot of other companies.

  46. 46 loltechnos 11 comments

    Firstly, many many thanks for posting this article.

    In a way I can see where he’s coming from I guess. I think he’s still looking at it from a more Japanese standpoint. I am under the impression that fans there are genuinely more “ethical” from the companies’ POV (and from people like him). Downloading is kept much, much more undercover than it is in the Western world. People are so paranoid that they will make their fansite pages hard to access (and start a hissy fit if they get linked to). Using official images for your own site is so frowned upon that everyone will try to create their own thing even if it’s crap.

    Perhaps an offshoot of that is that there’s more original content and more creative output than you might see in say Singapore. But I’m not so sure whether it’s because of that attitude or something that can be achieved independently. (I sometimes tend to agree with a certain person who thinks it’s just brainwashing.)

    And whatever it is about this attitude -my opinion is that it’s only stayed that way BECAUSE the Japanese side of the internet tends to be a lot more heavily policed than one would expect. Not by the government but by its own people… many people are so restricted to one language and will stay within their own Japanese boundaries, and then the social machineries start working. But even this itself is changing. You look at nicovideo… heck, I think since youtube came along and copyrighted clips would be shown on a static webpage for all the world to see, some of the thinking has begun to change.

    If anyone is even thinking Singapore is going to turn out like that though… way too late. Sorry. It should have been done ages earlier. Only someone stuck in nostalgia or something like that would believe it was possible and commercially viable in these days. The point is to work with what is available and make it better from there - not to forcibly change the system in one shot with all sorts of negative repercussions coming right back at you. Unfortunately if Odex chose the latter, then….
    And yeah. I don’t think we even need to mention how they are not quite upholding their side of the deal.

    Seriously, aren’t there any other alternatives? Isn’t anyone considering either joining them to improve them from the inside or start up a new company dealing with minor anime or something? Not that I can do anything now, until the end of the year…

  47. 47 5parrowhawk 4 comments

    warning! a huge rant “SPACE NAMAKO” is approaching fast. - no refuge -

    On the one hand, Peter has hit the mark. On the other, it’s the wrong mark.

    On the issue of “giving back”:

    He’s right to say that fans should be prepared to pay their dues; to give as well as take. The fact is that Odex’s releases here are very cheap, even at the old $29.90 price point, so I hardly think that those dues are too onerous to pay. (As opposed to, say, $3,000-$5,000?)

    But really, given that Odex has taken a lot out of the local anime scene by securing what for all intents and purposes amount to sole distribution rights, shouldn’t they put their money where their mouth is and give back by establishing a certain level of quality control? I’m not going to say that all their releases suck - but enough, past and present, have been mediocre that the average, informed consumer would likely think twice before buying.

    On the issue of fansubs:

    My instinct right now is to agree that *in Singapore*, fansubs are not functioning as a promotion mechanism for several reasons.

    One, the culture of entitlement and ignorance is still strong (this applies primarily to the kiddies out there). There are people who grit their teeth and buy the legit discs, including myself, but anecdotal evidence suggests that we’re in a minority.
    Two, Odex’s track record has been spotty, and nobody knows when they’re going to release a product, or whether that product is going to be of good quality (courtesy of that spotty track record).
    Three, there is an anime journalism scene courtesy of local anibloggers, but precisely because of the spotty track record, they simply don’t review Odex releases, so nobody knows what to think.

    Only one of the above three reasons is unarguably Odex’s fault, so let’s not be too hasty to put all the blame for this mess on them.

    (None of those reasons are the Government’s fault, except possibly insofar as their social engineering policies in the past may have inadvertently encouraged Singaporeans to become selfish ignorant brats with a sense of entitlement. - But I doubt anybody could predict that would happen. As for censorship, policies and rules can’t be changed overnight. If the Government decided to abolish all censorship, they’d have to deal with gangs of aunties rioting with choppers in the streets.)

    However, Peter’s assumption is that because fansubs aren’t viable right now, they will never be, and somehow sales will magically improve if they are gone. That, I think, is dead wrong.

    Why?

    Because there is simply zero marketing being done. Odex products on store shelves do not equate to sales, because people don’t buy anime blind; they very often are tipped off to the series by fellow fans and/or through the Internet. Now factor in the fact that there’s often at least a 1-year lag time between a series being blogged/hyped and the Odex release appearing. By that time, few people remember the series - except the ones who watched the fansub and enjoyed it in the first place.

    The problem that Odex and their various counterparts in other industries need to work on is NOT stopping downloads or fansubs; it’s fighting against ignorance and the “ME FIRST” culture of entitlement. Thus far, their track record has been abysmal. When I see those awful HIP ads on TVMobile, I feel like they’re trying to brainwash me (and failing). Even though I believe that freeloading without buying the series is wrong, I don’t find those ads anything but insulting. Big Brother ads and legal intimidation may change what people KNOW, but they can’t change what they THINK.

    I still think that Odex’s game plan is to get the general public on their side first. Now that Stephen’s started a war, though, even the public whom they had hoped to court is turning against them. I wasn’t sure about that at first, but it’s starting to sound as though it’s true. Was talking to a (non-anime-watching) colleague today, and as soon as the topic shifted to anime downloading, the first words out of the guy’s mouth (paraphrased) were “Wow, those anime company guys are really greedy, aren’t they?”

    I’m not quite sure how Odex can dig themselves out of the grave they’ve already buried themselves in. If we could turn back the clock one year, they might still have had a chance. Sponsoring events at Cosfesta (with included public-service announcements), drumming up positive press by asking influential anibloggers to review their better-quality products (and quietly sweeping the not-so-nice ones under the rug), and other such actions could have made a difference, but that’s all 20/20 hindsight.

    Perhaps their last best hope is to hold out an olive branch and hope some fans take it?

  48. 48 rOninZz 14 comments

    “The days of fansubs being promotion material are long gone. Nowadays, they are more harm than good, people are not buying DVDs because they already have obtained the shows via illegal downloads.”

    I have bought well over 1-2k worth of Anime Dvds alone (Kenshin/12 Kingdoms/Kinos/FMP12 etc), all imports from comparies like ADV etc. However, how do you think I got to know and love these animes in the first place?

    The first time I bought an Odex product was also my last. I bought Odex’s 12 kingdoms vcd box sets 1-2 out of 4?(DVD NOT available) several years ago. I watched around 5-6 episodes… and promptly threw away both vcd boxes.

  49. 49 Silverwolf X

    Well look at it this way short and sweet since I’m getting tired of writing essasy everytime this comes up:

    IF Peter Go and ODEX’s dream comes true witht he way things already are now, OUR Nightmare will begin. Especially with MDA/BOFC still pulling their strings in the background.

    Short and sweet.

  50. 50 Burke 2 comments

    zs> While I do not doubt your intentions nor intelligence, I will have to disagree with you there. Based on the USA, hardcore fans of anime WILL buy the DVDs as they have been tracking it before its released (via promos and others). As for those who like anime, they only tend to buy a series AFTER they’ve watched it, either via fansubs, raws or borrowing from a friend who has purchased the anime. It is quite a fallacy to state outright that anime can do without fansubs or any other fan-inspired promotional efforts.

    As for Hongkong and Taiwan, I believe that there is no objective data on the take up rate of anime purchases w.r.t. to the rate of downloads.

    For the supposed world-wide decrease in anime disc purchases, there are simply far too many issues to contend with and to consider before it can be decided that downloads and fansubs are at fault. I do not have accurate data on hand, nor do I personally trust the involved businesses to give us a completely honest and accurate outlook. However, I can give you a hypothetical scenario.

    Assuming a group of young persons, some of which are hardcore fans, some of which watch anime and the rest which do not like anime. As this group ages, hardcore fans can and will keep up with the purchases, they keep track of releases, read anime news, seek out trailers and promos even as they get older. On the other hand, the other group of anime watchers may not keep up with that interest. As they get older, they may lose interest and find other things to watch (say, Japanese or Korean Dramas?!). Assuming in this group, those that retain their interest, would probably buy if they find something that catches their fancy and is of an acceptable quality. However, this group would only decrease as not all of them will retain the interest as they age.

    In that scenario, the only constant would be the group of hardcore fans, (even then some of them may lose interest too, but the assumption here is that hardcore fans are here to stay). Therefore unless the next generation of anime fans are large enough in number to replace the previous generation, sales will ALWAYS drop, that’s a given. From that scenario, assuming fansubs are freely downloadable, those hardcore fans may or may not watch but will buy, the anime watchers will probably buy if they like what they see. As for the non-fans there, chances are, they will download, but assuming that fansubs/downloads are not available, they are not going to buy anyway. Thereby making them not a source of revenue at all anyway.

  51. 51 Loba aka Project_D 11 comments

    He has a pretty nice vision but sad to say, too idealistic. Not that his vision can’t be achieved but after this whole fiasco, it’s less likely/impossible to achieve anymore…I wish him luck though.

    (1st step is to get rid of the odex name. And that logo argh)

  52. 52 shuu 1 comment

    @rOninZz: lol, now that’s where it’s gone! i was looking for odex’s whole set of 12 kingdoms a few months ago(before odex thingy happened) but sad to say, i went to quite a few video stores in different parts of sg but couldn’t find the whole set =(

  53. 53 rOninZz 14 comments

    @Shuu - lol u might have regretted buying their version of 12 kingdoms though, really spoils a great show imo.

    A few reasons why I do not want to consider buying the Odex VCD / DVD , I feel that Odex goods actually degrade the entertainment value / quality of the anime.

    Firstly they have they really really poorly translated subtitles ( awful pixelated yellow text). If Mr Go / Sing are Anime Fans themselves, I cannot believe that they would allow badly translated subs to go with their products. I mean if you were watching a foreign show and shoddy subtitles keep popping up, it disrupts the flow of the show itself.

    The feeling/experience you get when watching a show with shoddy subtitles and one with accurate ones can be drastically different - in my own experience. After watching the crappy version, and then later watching an imported version, it felt like certain scenes with *proper dialogs* the second time around actually changed the way me, the viewer, looked @ the scenes - sorta like “ah thats how it was suppose to be”. Most of the time when watching an anime with shoddy subtitles, the bugs here and there can really get very annoying. I’m not sure how Mr Go and Mr Sing actually watch anime, maybe they both speak and read fluent Japanese unlike the majority of Singaporeans and do not need proper subtitles.

    I admit I have watched my friend’s Odex Gundam Seed which had fairly OK subtitles, but other titles like 12 kingdoms , Initial D had subtitles which had missed out lines and incorrect translations.

    If he is so puzzled why Singaporeans do not buy their dvds, my reason for not buying their DVDs is that Odex already had such poor QC issues for many years (experienced first hand by myself and other friends), why would I want to spend MORE $$ on DVDs which might have shoddy subtitling and poor image quality (based on their previously made goods)? Going for imports from companies like ADV, which I have bought from in the past and whose quality I trust, for me is much safer.

    Of course Odex Dvds are most likely significantly cheaper in comparison to imports from the US, but Mr Go and Mr Sing should ask themselves whether “real” anime fans will be willing to go for cheaper products @ the expense for (IMO) a significant drop in image and subtitling quality?

    Even casual anime fans would probably (IMO) not want to continue buying their vcd/dvd sets after experiencing repeatedly bad quality (subs/video) in their first purchase.

  54. 54 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Captain Obvious to the rescue!!

    “The central belief Peter holds is that an anime fan is one who gives back as much as he takes from the anime industry. That is the hallmark of a true fan.”

    So, the anime artists work for years on a project, producing the highest caliber of animation and voice acting, and you mongle all that by releasing their works at a MUCH lower quality than they intend for it to be viewed? The hallmark of a true mental patient, maybe.

    Oh, and look! Wazzat, cute vision you got there. Awww, you know, my five year-old cousin drew a picture with crayons the other day, it had dancing unicorns under the rainbow. Yeah, thats right, i just compared your vision to a daydream of a kid who still eats his own faeces.

    “If Singapore is a big market, Singaporeans would have much clout with the Japanese studios and we will soon start seeing special Singapore-only extras in anime, or even more Singaporean anime characters and settings.”
    Yeah, because the culture in Singapore is just too HIP and AWESOME. Thats why 1/4 of us are watching american shows, 1/4 korean shows, 1/4 japanese shows, 1/4 chinese serials AMIRITE?

    “Not only those, we can start demanding for same-time releases of DVDs and airtime of episodes, and invite high profile staff and seiyuu down here. In a capitalist economy, money talks and if everyone got their anime via legal means, Singapore would be ahead of the other countries in terms of attractiveness to the Japanese studios”

    Singapore? A more attractive market than AMERICA and EUROPE?! Hell, i’ll have whatever Peter Go is smoking!

    “It does seem like an impossible dream (*SNORT*), what with the high-handed approach Odex is taking, and the juvenile cyber-terrorism undertaken by the online masses.”

    JUVENILE CYBER-TERRORISM. HAHA, OH WOW. I’M IN YOUR INTERNET, BOMBING YOUR IRAQ.

    “The dream does sound good, and it did bring a smile to my face as I heard it. (Those HIV positive patients all need a glimmer of hope i’d bet) Imagine the possibilities, like a female Gundam heroine who shouts, “Wah lau eh!” when her Merlion Gundam explodes!”

    (http://www.mrbrown.com/photos/uncategorized/world_gundams.jpg) Done and done. Anyway, why would you want the Merlion Gundam to explode? DESTROYING THE SYMBOL OF OUR COUNTRY ZOMG CYBER-TERRORIST.

    “Hirano Aya coming to Singapore and performing in the indoor stadium!”
    I won’t say i’m not attracted to the idea. I also believe that someday, aliens will come and take us all home.

    “Anime DVDs of great quality for less than ten dollars! Watching the latest anime episodes on TV or VoD at the same time of Japanese releases, while the silly Americans struggle with their week-old fansubs!”

    SO we insult other countries now? Real mature. By the way, American fansubs have been released mere hours after the episode airs in Japan, WITH NO SPELLING MISTAKES OR MIS-TRANSLATIONS. Odex takes months- years to release and anime, and the quality is still reminiscent of a badly pirated malaysian VCD.

    “Sounds great right? (Totally awesome, but then, sadly, reality hit me.) But all that, apparently according to Peter, is dependant on whether we can generate that critical mass of anime demand needed for Japanese studios to take notice and care of us. And to do that, fansub downloads need to be eradicated.”

    This article reeks. It reeks of a 35 year-old trying to be hip. But even that stench is overpowered by the smell of crap. The last paragraph basically states “So we are taking your candy away from you now, so you can get much better candy later.” ODEX CANDY IS MADE OF FAIL AND AIDS. YOU WILL NO DOUBT CONTRACT SOME FORM OF FATAL DISEASE FROM WATCHING THOSE EPISODES. EVERYTIME YOU WATCH AN ODEX SUB, A FAIRY DIES. THINK OF THE FAIRIES.

    I guess…. thats it.

  55. 55 tj_han 896 comments

    Lol Captain Obvious: Thanks for providing an example of the typical retarded freeloader.

  56. 56 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    tj_han:

    Nice retort. Really. Why not you COUNTER my arguements, instead of giving a one-liner? I would call you a retard back, but your words… they cut me so deep ;_; i might never fully emotionally heal. Oh well.

  57. 57 Aheda 7 comments

    Captain Obvious : If your cousin eats shit with his mouth, I suppose your side of the family produces it?

  58. 58 tj_han 896 comments

    I don’t see any arguments. Look above for arguments of the proper sort. You are just an angry juvenile who needs to grow up.

  59. 59 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Heh! Angry Juvenile huh. So i guess i’m just your average, “Angry Cyber Terrorist Juvenile”?

    Alright. Heres something for you to argue. Here’s something you can think about long and hard tonight. This is the million dollar question.

    Can you honestly tell me, that you have NEVER downloaded any illegal material from the internet? Not a single mp3? Or even a snippet of a video?

    Your high horse. Time to get off it.

    Aheda: Nice joke detection radars. I’m sure that when the new and improved “Aheda XP” OS is released next year, there might be a sliver of a chance you might see that i dont, in fact, have a cousin who eats crap. GASP!

  60. 60 klazyguy 29 comments

    I don’t really see any arguement in your comments buddy. All i see are angry kid rants about how ” O i feel really really shitty so I’m going to bash and rant about the article.” Ain’t cool man.

  61. 61 James 5 comments

    Mr. Go’s ideas are outdated and don’t actually follow known market trends. While anime piracy does represent a loss of revenue, the key isn’t to stamp the entire downloading culture out entirely. Using KyoAni’s flagship products as an example, downloaders are not the deadweight leeches Peter Go portrays them/us as- in the case of new releases, it may be the only way a series may gain any significant attention abroad.

    What Odex and other companies should really do is take a few notes from the major innovators of a few other media industries. Instead of battling head-on against the hydra of piracy, they should… subvert them. Fold fansub groups into the company (and save a huge bundle of cash and time), proffer sample episodes to the public, even distribute them online (via iTunes, perhaps, for maximum public exposure). Or they can just make it so that the stuff people pay for is in some way or form much more desirable than *just* the anime (KyoAni’s beautiful box sets, for example- which TAUNTS me, as I can’t find it when I have money, and see it everywhere when I do!).

    Piracy *cannot be killed off*- not so long as there’s still a handful of computers with bittorrent or other file-sharing protocols. The allure of free stuff is too strong to resist. Instead of trying to whip the ocean into servitude, anime companies really need to learn how to redirect it in their favor instead. They’ll either adapt their marketing techniques to fit the needs of this new economy, or somebody else will do it instead and brush this entire Odex fiasco under the rug like the rest of history’s discards.

  62. 62 Orochi 26 comments

    @TJ

    Do show how the ACG culture is in decline in HK and TW (”downward spiralling problems” as you puts it), because it’s still very vibrant when compared to ours.

    My said event is held in convention centre the size of Suntec’s where there’s Cosplay event, model and garage kits display and competition and even doujinshis on sale all under the same roof on the same day. This is true exspecially if you look at the Comic Festival of HK and the FF of Taiwan, pretty much a much smaller scale doppelganger of Comiket from Japan.

    Sadly, this might not encourage the growth of the culture should Odex rule the Singapore scene under the dictatorship system.

  63. 63 Shadowlite 2 comments

    Well, to reinforce what i said earlier. I must say that Mr Goh’s comment and thinking that fansubs are promotional material of the past is either a totally naive thinking, or just the thinking of a businessman who just wants to maximize his profits. Definitely not the mentality of a anime fan i should say.

    Everyone should know that unlike Movies, Korean / Hongkong / Taiwan Drama, where companies can attract customers just by having big shot / hollywood casts, japanese animation does not have that. It’s not like you go to a video store, and you a an animation box with your favorite pop idols on the cover being the main lead, example Bae Yong Jun, or with a badass famous director like Steven Spielberg.

    So, would anyone just go into the video store and get any japanese animation just by looking at the cover? There will be some, but those are at the minority. True fans, not just looking at Singapore, but at the US, got converted to fans AFTER, I repeat AFTER they have watched the fansubbed series. ( Haruhism anyone? )

    On the review on the working conditions of pple in the animation industry, I really do sympathies with the people there, as I am not just a hard-core fan, but a human being as well. But remember, without fansubs, do anything they will get Azumanga Daioh or The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya? I remember that even the US companies didnt predict Azumanga to be a success in the States. Only with the wide popularity gain through fansubs do the companies realised the potential of the few titles. And without fansubs, would anyone know Aya Hirano, or would she gain the popularity she has now? Without fansubs, I wouldnt even bother to think of buying the dvds, let alone getting the Collection’s Ed from Yesasia.

    So Mr Goh and people from Odex, please drop this idealistic / naive thoughts that the animation industry can survive without fansubs. If anyone bother to ask any true anime fans whether they will buy any titles they have never hear of, chances are that it will be almost 0. Remember, most fans are fans of a particular series after watching it, no one can make fans out of people when they have not watched the title right? So I sincerely request Mr Goh and the people from Odex to think this true, if they are what they claim, true anime fans, to come out with a better solution to co-exist with fansubs, and not killing off the market with high handed methods like threatening students with lawsuits. That is definitely not the way to treat customers and potential customers, even in the business sense.

  64. 64 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    For those of you who missed out why i am angry at this post, and i look like i am ranting over nothing, enjoy the highlights.

    1) Us “freeloaders” Aren’t as big freeloaders as you make us out to be. Your statement is an unfair generalization of the typical local anime fan. Juvenile cyber-terrorists as well, seriously, can you honestly say that is a fair statement? We buy mangas. Lots of it. We buy merchandise, we hold cosplay events which indirectly increase awareness for our favorite shows. Anime DVD/VCD selling isn’t the only way to show support for our favorite show. Some of my friends even order anime DVDs from Japan, because there are DVD extras too yummy to miss. And yet they don’t buy from odex. Why is that? Simply because Odex VCDs has notoriously bad quality. Buy a VCD, watch it, tell me you love it without crying. Oh, and by the way, Anime is still one of, if not Japan’s biggest export. Are we really killing the industry? Think about it.

    2) Peter Go’s dream is very nice. I won’t say it isn’t a nice dream. But it is an unrealistic one. As i mentioned before, local market even at full force will never be as tantalising as the American or European market. Don’t have to take Economics to know that. You might be saying “But American bands got come Singapore, surely Hirano Aya also can come what.” That is because the American Bands go on World Tours, Singapore is only one of their stops. Hirano Aya going to Malaysia? Or Indonesia? Can you see that happening? No. She can stay in Tokyo and give a performance with 3 times the crowd in Singapore, and don’t need travelling expenses. Not the best career move.

    3) Insulting the fansubbers who do a much better job than Mr.Go’s Odex elves makes you just as big an angry juvenile as i am. “Silly”? Haha. Really. They are people who have never met face to face, yet can record, translate, sub, time, do karaoke for the opening and ending, and upload for us all to enjoy in less than 2 hours sometimes. Oh, and by the way, their subtitles are the ones Mr.Go is ripping off. Please get your facts right before you insult them. You think We can have same-time screening of animes in singapore? Well, thinking about it logically, it is impossible. First of all, the episodes will all have no subtitles on tv. Secondly, don’t know if you have ever watched an anime before but there are plenty of ecchi moments that will never be allowed on TV before the censorship board rips it to shreds.

    4) This interview is a few months old. It bears little weight in the light of all that is going on now. If you had posted this article in febuary or march people might still believe you. Why didn’t you post this sooner? Why wait the few months? Unless this is another of Odex’s famed media time leaps. (http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?t=1697168)

    Oh yea, by the way, the ones who are crying about their working conditions is Mr.Go, not the animators. They are loving every second. They are not the ones threathening us with legal action. Don’t go out on a holy war on their behalf.

  65. 65 tj_han 896 comments

    Obvious: Glad to see you’ve grown up. To counter your points,

    1. Remember that these are still the minority. You and your friends may do that, but not everyone and certainly not the minority behaves like that. Many anime fans have this rather blinkered and closed social circle which they think represents the world.

    2. Yeah? The same Hirano Aya who travels across the Pacific for American conventions? I’m not defending Peter Go’s vision here but I do see the viability of at least that. They aren’t A-list celebs you know.

    3. English fan subbers, a lot of them translate from Chinese subs. Where is this 2 hour thing you speak of? One of the fastest groups is Eclipse and even they take 2 days. The fastest subbers are Chinese ones and they take about 4-5 hours. And btw you obviously have no knowledge of how the industry works. The completed episode for screening is ready 2 weeks before the airdate. Odex can and has received the raw 2 weeks before the show even hits the airwaves in Japan. As for ecchi moments, you can blame our censorship board then. But the truly good anime do not have these.

    4. This interview was done in July. To post this in March, I must have been a Mikuru.

    5. Why do you assume the animators are happy to see their works downloaded for free? Have you asked them?

  66. 66 useract75 11 comments

    While “Captain Obvious” had contributed little in his long diatribe, his $1m question really hits the spot. Those people who’ve repeating ad nauseam about how downloading anime is illegal and such, can you say with a clear conscience you’ve never violated the copyright law? Even in the rare event if you’ve never downloaded an MP3, borrowed a software from a friend, watched copyrighted MTVs on youtube, do you not have shareware like WinZIP, WinRAR, mIRC, or some other games installed beyond the trial period? If you’ve done even one of the above, horror of all horrors, you’ve just violated the copyright law.
    Those people who said “anime downloading is illegal, get over it” would be the same ones who whine and bitch when they get a fine for an expired parking coupon, for going 10km/h above the speed limit or for jaywalking.

  67. 67 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    I grew up? No, you failed to see the obvious trolling. Anyway:

    1) Everyone buys anime merchandise. Gundam model kits, for example. Rare is the leecher who only watches the anime, then doesn’t do anything else.

    2) Again, you are making my point that the American and European markets will always be bigger than ours look even more viable. You probably would’ve been better off arguing the statement that if we were true anime fans, we would go to Japan and watch her perform there.

    3)Not true. Dattebayo subs for naruto and bleach. Obviously, YOU don’t know your fansubbers. These are called speedsubs. Their purpose is not fancy text, but quick, yet accurate translations for the impatient fans. There are many more of such groups, for the more popular anime of course. If you dont believe me, here are the torrent upload time listings (NO, i didn’t download it.)

    [S^M] Bleach 137 RAW.​avi (Date: Wed Aug 22 2007 18:35 GMT)
    [DB] Bleach 137 [8076DB9C].​avi(Date: Thu Aug 23 2007 00:18 GMT )

    Alittle less than six hours. Heres Naruto.
    NARUTO Shippuuden 025 RAW [640×480 h264 AAC D-TX].​mkv(Date: Thu Aug 16 2007 18:31 GMT)
    [NB]Naruto Shippuuden 25[Xvid][199B728F].​avi (Date: Thu Aug 16 2007 21:38 GMT)

    3 hour subs? They are more likely than you think.

    “Odex can and has received the raw 2 weeks before the show even hits the airwaves in Japan. As for ecchi moments, you can blame our censorship board then. But the truly good anime do not have these.”

    I know very well how the industry works. My point is, if Odex is getting the raws so fast, why arent we seeing any of them? In the words of todays youths, “WHERE ARE MY F***KING SUBS?!?!?!”

    Loads of good animes have ecchi moments, even if they aren’t the selling points. Samurai Champloo. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. If you are narrowing down your list to screening only non-ecchi animes, once again you are standing in a very tight corridor. And that does not coincide with Odex’s dream of releasing every anime for Singaporeans to enjoy.

    4)When you say “a few months back” but actually meant “one month back” you can’t help it if people assume you meant before the saga.

    Being a Mikuru fan, surely you know about this.

    “Monday, August 06, 2007
    Haruhi DVD Sells 60,000 in US, Helped by YouTube and Fansubs

    YouTube and fansubs helped the first DVD of Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu sell 60,000 units in the US. This compares with only 80,000 of each DVD sold in Japan.

    This information is from an interview with the president of Kadokawa Holdings, Kadokawa Tsuguhito, published in the prestigious Japanese financial daily Nihon Keizai Shinbun.

    Kadokawa, publisher of the Haruhi novels and rights-holder for the anime, has adopted an internet policy that includes a cooperation agreement with YouTube. The 60,000 sales figure is particularly impressive considering that the show has not been shown on TV in the US, but only through fansubs and to some extent on YouTube.

    The figures appear to confirm arguments from fans that fansubs may not hurt anime sales as much as thought, since they also publicize the shows.”

    In baseball terms, this is what we call a HOME RUN.

  68. 68 Musa 32 comments

    What a fat load of bull. The Japanese themselves hardly support the buying of their own DVDs as everyone knows anime DVDs are expensive (even to the Japanese) and only the average otaku would buy SOME of the series. How does Singapore being a piracy-free hub help her to become an anime utopia just escapes me. Singapore being uniquely small and manageable just proves that a “huge” anime market is highly unfeasible.

    The Japanese can watch every anime on their tvs, the Japanese stations even have periodic rebroadcasts of popular animes on local TV. What does Singapore have? Selected few series that are at least 1 year old. The number of animes that Singaporeans are exposed to “legally” is not even 1% of what the average Japanese can watch freely on their tv! Can Odex safely prove that Singaporeans are willing to buy Vcds/Dvds of shows that the Japanese are watching freely on their tvs? Can Odex provide a service for Singaporeans to watch every title that airs in Japan? If not, how can we be an anime utopia if everyone else knows about the latest animes while we are left sucking our thumbs with older series?

    Let’s face it, due to the vast cultural and linguistic difference between the 2 countries, it only reinforces the fact that anime viewing should stick to being a niche hobby, not a mass market business in Singapore. It takes time to translate japanese into a language non-japanese can understand, and it takes an even longer time for that to be put as a product. But can people wait? When there are other alternatives that can provide the same and more in a shorter time?

    I do not condone “illegal downloading” but this is something pretty large to consider as we need to relook at the Internet on the whole. How can Odex expect people to agree to their lofty ideals when the originators, the Japanese themselves, are having a hard time dealing with their own illegal distribution of anime online?

    The presence of the Internet itself is a huge problem as we are interconnected to all over the world, and information from all over the world can be within our grasp at real time. Thus it is hard to resist the temptation of knowing the latest news since everyone on the net is doing it. Can Singaporeans wait and spend money on watching 2 one-year old series when everyone else around the world is watching 10 one-month old series on the net? What Odex is trying to do is to make Singapore a harder place to live in that’s all.

  69. 69 Usagi 24 comments

    I am pretty sure the latest actions by Odex (including a strongly worded public announcement) will attract people to support and promote his vision for a better tomorrow.

    One word. Naive.

  70. 70 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Musa gets it. Everyone knows about doujins, right? I’m not just talking about the dirty ones. Using other people’s characters is copyright infringement, and yet there are hundreds of thousands of doujins sold in Japan a year. Every single doujin is a lawsuit waiting to happen, yet the Japanese don’t do anything about them. Why? Well mostly because there are too many to stop, but also because they are actually good publicity. If the Japanese don’t even wanna catch people who profit off their products, which if you think about it, is even worse than us who just watch it, then why would they give a rat’s ass about a small country watching anime online? This is a problem between Odex and the local anime community, don’t bring Japan into this.

    And Usagi, no one will believe them. Not anymore. I will never believe anyone who gloats about suing people and goes (o.o)y

  71. 71 l-lawliet 17 comments

    “4. This interview was done in July. To post this in March, I must have been a Mikuru.”

    LOL.

  72. 72 useract75 11 comments

    Once upon a time, there were two noodle sellers: Pete and Ah Seng.

    Now Pete is a rich man, so he bought a shop in the CBD area and started his noodle business there. Unfortunately, he employed the worst chefs, provided terrible service (waiters reportedly ignored customers and preferred to chit-chat), and refused to respond to customers complaints. His favourite quote: “oh, it’s subjective what good noodles are”.

    Ah Seng is different: he loves noodles, having been brought up in a family of noodle sellers. Being poor, he could only peddle his wares in a street stall. But Ah Seng has pride: not only were his noodles delicious, his stall was clean and he took pride in providing the best ingredients. Oh, and Ah Seng managed to get his noodles for free from some dubious source, so he’s not that nice.

    Needless to say, Pete’s business declined. He began to get angry: how dare this Ah Seng get his noodles free via illegal means? So he decided to report Ah Seng to the authorities. Now, that itself is not really unethical, is it? I mean, Ah Seng’s engaging in unfair competition.

    But he realized that wouldn’t solve the problem: see, besides Ah Seng, there were Ah Meng, Ah Beng and Ah Teng who were equally adept at noodle-making. And even after arresting all these people, there are more. So Pete laid a grand plan: sue the customers instead. See, the customers knew that the source of Seng’s noodles is dubious, but continue to support him anyway. So he captured videos of Seng’s customers and went after them. Being the only licensed noodle seller, he was entitled to do so.

    He first went after 15 noodle lovers with their photos, saying :”look, here’s evidence of you violating my noodle license rights; how about this, you pay me $100 for the film, time and equipment, and I’ll let you go?”

    In this way, he easily made $1500. Now, this happened some twenty years ago, so $1500 was quite significant. “Wow that was easy,” thought Pete, so he decided to go after 300 customers now from around town. (to be continued)

  73. 73 wyred 19 comments

    I hope Peter Go reads this entry and it’s comments. If he does, I hope he hears me as a person who loves anime as much as he does.

    I strongly believe that it’s thanks to bittorrent and fansubs, the local anime community has grown a lot compared to like 8 years ago. I’ve been hooked onto the internet for more than 10 years and I try to keep myself informed on cosplay events and how they’ve been doing. I’ve seen nothing but improvement.

    4 years ago, I would feel embarrassed to be seen reading manga while in my formal work attire in public, but not anymore now.

    I want to emphasize that by fiercely suing downloaders, Odex will only reduce the anime community back to square one. Both parties, Odex and anime fans, will not gain anything from these lawsuits.

    I can’t help but perceive Odex as an enemy of the anime community now, instead of a friend like what Peter Go wishes to achieve. I do not laugh at nor doubt his dreams but the 3~5 thousand dollar legal threats he’s shooting out is definitely not helping him to achieve it.

    To everyone, are there better ways to encourage downloaders to buy DVDs after they have downloaded instead of resorting to legal violence?

  74. 74 Destiny Co-ordinator 1 comment

    What ODEX means now - Online Downloads EXpensive!!!

  75. 75 exile1982v 1 comment

    After reading this article, my first reaction was like “oh no!!, the future of Japanese anime in singapore falls on the wrong hand!!”. Why is that so? I believe that to bring in anime and its popularity to Singapore, the person will need to show some sense of business acumen, understand the animation industry in Japan and the Singapore market. But from this article, Mr Go showed none of these qualities. He certainly know the Japanese Anime companies and their pple doing the anime well enough but that is simply not enough for a business success. I felt sorry for this guy who pursue his business because of his blind love in anime.

    …”It is obvious Peter is an anime fan - he has seen far more than most of you have. Except that for him, anime isn’t just a hobby, it’s his livelihood.” …

    Sadly, from all of the articles I had read so far he seems to be another Singapore version Otaku who failed to understand and catch the reality well enough. To love anime is one thing, but to be successful in this business is another story. In Japan, most CEOs in successful anime company are not just plain anime lover but pple who know the Otakus and market well enough. This had brought them real success in Japan. Mr Goh look like the opposite to me.

    …”The central belief Peter holds is that an anime fan is one who gives back as much as he takes from the anime industry. That is the hallmark of a true fan. In other words, a free-loading downloader is not an anime fan.”…

    That defination of “true fan” only applies to Otaku in Japan. NO ONE in Japan except otaku will buy DVDs and related products regularly enough to create a market. In Singapore, the Otaku’s market is probably far less than 1000 people. I must also remind Mr Go that only otaku had real spending power to buy this sort of anime stuffs and Singapore anime market consisted of mainly students with little spending power. Therefore the anime VCD and DVD market will never be a success unless the Singapore culture changes which never will. Mr Go can argue that the anime can be brought in much cheaper if all the students are willing to buy them. This is another very wrong concept. I believe that the price of ODEX anime VCD in Singapore is already at its minimum but still too expensive to be affordable by student. The reason? Most anime companies will benchmark the DVD pricing against parallel import companies and original DVDs in Japan. But this benchmarking is unfair to the Singapore market here because most of the anime lover just want to watch them and are not interested in collecting the anime. Neither of us are willing to pay the same price for anime as the otakus. Mr Go, who is probably an otaku himself, thought otherwise. He may thought he could create an otaku market here based on what he had seen in the cosplay event in singapore. Again, this is another very unrelistic belief. If Mr Akimoto (creator of AKB48) told the same thing to the otakus in Japan that they MUST pay to watch the idols in the beginning, AKB48 will probably failed by now. I still remember clearly that Mr Akimoto told the media at the very start that AKB48 is created as a “service” (means relatively free to Japanese) to the otaku community because he is an otaku himself. Girls are paid peanuts and initial performances tickets are priced so low that would almost translated to immediate loss for Mr Akimoto. But of course, soon AKB48’s popularity increased because they are able to click with the community and now Mr Akimoto is probably counting cash at home. That is what I called business and good PR.

    …”Animators in Japan slog for peanuts, because of their love for anime, bringing us the shows we enjoy. Watching it legally on TV in Japan and even here helps them, for it increases ad revenue. Buying DVDs, merchandise and others also help them. But downloading for free does not return anything to the industry and this is a form of theft, according to Peter. …… He recalled that he wept when he first saw the working conditions of the animators, such was the harshness.”…

    I too wept for my idols in Japan, knowing most of them are paid very little despite trying so hard to become successful in Japan. So I bought their CDs hoping they can last longer. But did this work? after thinking carefully not really..The high import and handling fee (as high as 40% of the cost of the CD), together with other costs and fees, I guess the idol company probably only earn a couple of cents more with the single i bought. Same things for the animators. I understand they also tried very hard to bring the best anime to us. But for them to earn their rewards, they need pple who are business smart enough to make sure they get the maximum rewards. Mr Go is not one of them (at least he didn’t show to us by increasing anime’s popularity) and I wept for the animators. What ODEX is doing now is killing the market.

    In Singapore, anime DVD market is really very small and by preventing pple from watching them online are probably not going to improve ODEX’s sales. ODEX must see that online distribution of anime and VCDS and DVDs as two different entites which they always are. ODEX need to find new strategies to re-address the anime market here. The best way to counter illgeal downloading is go into online market which boost a larger popularity. There is a lot of other creative solutions out there and Mr Go MUST also know that culture difference between Japan and Singapore . What is successful in Japan may not be successful in Singapore. Many Japanese know this and I hope Mr Go will understand this as well.

  76. 76 hitoshura 7 comments

    @wyred.

    Possible but very difficult.

    Veteran importers already know how screwed up it is if MDA intercepts your package and decided to tear off that fresh packaging and view it in their dirty office then return it to you while asking for viewing fees.

    To stop downloading totally, is either the censorship board in SG stop treating us like wussies and get in the better anime from japan or american dvd direct.

    OR

    Odex just wise up now. Stop this shit and get on to their original jobs.

  77. 77 naive 6 comments

    The very fact that singapore is such a small country with relatively tiny anime community makes it easy for fucked up monopolistic company like odex to do whatever they like.
    And if singapore media really want to become freer, get rid of the old farts at MDA/BOFC, it’s a wonder that they still survive in this globalised society sticking to their stone age idealism.

  78. 78 wyred 19 comments

    Ah yes, hitoshura you just reminded me the first reason why I never buy local DVDs since many years ago, it’s because of the stupid local censorship.

  79. 79 Ascaloth 67 comments

    I think, for all his supposed “obvious” statements, Captain Obvious has missed out on a very obvious point;

    TJ HAN IS NOT THE ONE ESPOUSING THESE POINTS. PETER GO IS, AND TJ HAN IS MERELY REPEATING WHAT PETER GO SAID.

    If I had more time, I’ll enjoy taking as much of it as I want, making fun of every bit of what you said. But I’m rushing off somewhere now, so I’ll just leave you with the bare essentials before I go; if you have to flame, at least target the correct person. TJ Han only bothered to put this post up BECAUSE someone else asked him to, and he wasn’t even planning to do so before; besides, it’s not like he said he totally agrees with Peter. Choose your targets wisely next time; at least you’ll just come off looking like a mere troll, instead of coming off now as a STUPID troll.

    That is all. Ascaloth, signing out.

  80. 80 XEDO HOLOCAUST 1 comment

    what say you?
    i say fuck you

  81. 81 LianYL 452 comments

    I have a grand plan to upscale this stupidity, look out for it soon.

  82. 82 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Hey Fagaloth! You fail at life. Just thought i’d let you know. Because, well, anyone who didn’t fail at life would be able to see that TJ obviously AGREES with Peter Go. I mean, for an interview TJ didn’t exactly take a sitting on the fence approach. He added in alot of text like insulting americans who support fansubbers.

    Oh, you know why else you fail? Because it is obvious you are angry. Or at the very least, upset. If i am just a “stupid troll” then why aren’t you ignoring me? You want to challenge the troll? Internet newfag. HA HA.

  83. 83 tj_han 896 comments

    Captain Obvious obviously does not read the newspapers or any form of current affairs. Don’t you realise insulting Americans is a common humour device, ever since Bush became President? I probably know, am friends with and liked by more Americans than you will ever be. See how Seth loves me. But I can’t believe you’re still harping on that line after so long.

    Oh I don’t like Mikuru, I prefer Yuki.

    As for whether I agree with Peter Go, once again, you cannot read between the lines much can you? I thought I pre-empted people poor at English with the first paragraph, explaining that these aren’t my views. For the purpose of this article, I sought to bring Odex’s viewpoint to you masses. As usual, the foolish ones can’t differentiate anything and just wreak havoc.

    No wonder anime fans have a bad name around here. Oh troll more, because you’re just adding to the comment count.

  84. 84 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    So you win a prize if you get 100 comments? What is it, the pair of adult sized testicles you always wanted? :3

    Lets do the math.

    I am anti odex.

    You are arguing with me.

    Yet you are not pro odex.

    LOL WUT

    So you say its okay to laugh at americans because you have american friends? How is that even relevant? And you say i don’t have any american friends. How would you know? Are you secretly watching me? Is that strange looking teddy bear facing my computer actually not a teddy bear, BUT A ROBOT IN DISGUISE LOL WUT.

    I kinda like Yuki too, but Tsuruya is my fave. Girls with fangs are hot.

    And again you say that i didn’t read your post carefully. I did actually; me and my friend read it together, it was a wonderful journey of tears, romance, and mindless violence. I especially enjoyed the surprise ending, where the protagonist was actually a zombie.

    And yet… Did you read what I wrote? ;)
    You didn’t acknowledge i was right about american fansubbers. And i guess you didn’t answer my question, “Can you honestly say you have never illegally downloaded anything from the internet” because the answer scares you. Thats okay.

    The pair of testicles will fix that right up.

  85. 85 kokanaden 174 comments

    @Captain Obvious So you’re some fucking retard of a grown-up trapped in the body and mind, and possibly soul of a child like your little cousin who eats his/her own faeces. Okay, fine.

    I HEREBY PRONOUNCE CAPTAIN OBVIOUS THE WORLD NO 1 FUCKING RETARD OF A GROWN-UP TRAPPED IN THE BODY AND MIND OF A CHILD LIKE HIS COUSIN WHO EATS HIS/HER OWN FAECES. Happy with this title? I’m sure you are, and i’m quite proud of you.

    You claim you’re a troll, but I can’t see how you can claim to be one when of all things, you nitpick on tjhan poking fun at Americans. Which is like, duh, who doesn’t poke fun at Americans when they can? or LKY for that matter?

  86. 86 Charles 15 comments

    Hey man, don’t listen to that guy, and I doubt you’ll be reading this comment. And, hey, I’m a freshman at NUS too, though I am in the FASS.

    As for my take on Peter’s views….. he’s naive. Japan doesn’t really bother that much about its biggest markets outside, mainly the States and East Asia. Considering that in mind, what goes on in a little company like SIngapore would hardly affect them, nor would theyr eally be interested in this country, not to mention that Singaproe as an anime hub would have its problems (listing them would be difficult)

    What do I say ? I may believe in ODEX’s vision, but I do not believe in their methods. And as for their beliefs, the true anime fan does give back to the company in the ways they can. That’s why there are merchandise stores, so that you can buy stuff that was licensed by the original company to produce. The option of going without anime, as noted by some, is absurd, and to say downloading has done nothing is like saying the picture of Haurhi Suzumiya in Newsweek, small as it was, didn’t exist. (and I prefer Haruhi, or rather, Haruhi X Kyon)

    In shrot, this is a difficult argument, with two opposing, equally well-argued, but mutually-exclusive sides. One side has its dreams, but in its self-righteousness, may bring about tis demise. The other retains the image as an sub-culture filled with internet hooligans that use some shorthand and emoticons instead of proper grammar, and level insults without using any real intellectual discourse.

    I do not deny that downloading is wrong. Torrenting was a wodnerful technology, but it couldn’t last forever. However, the stake of the anime sub-culture in Singapore is at stake.

    Peter Go has done his bit. Its about time we did ours, and show that there is a deeper side to the anime community.

  87. 87 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    LOLOL. Its a catchy title. Someday I will have a sweet ass ride with the license plate which reads “NO 1 FCK RTD” which will be a hit with all the ladies.

    Since you pronounced it, i guess that is my name for life! After all, you are KOKANADEN, THE ONLY ADULT WHO HAS YET TO BE PAID A VISIT BY THE PUBERTY FAIRY!

    I wasn’t nitpicking. You missed the highlights of the game. Tape this down on your VCR.

    He was wrong about the fansubbers. He made fun of them, and yet was so wrong about them. The proof is in the pudding. Current Odex doesn’t have a snowball chance in hell at having better quality than the fansubbers. Maybe someday. But i doubt it.

    So go ahead. Do this:
    http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4364/1187870023876qf4.jpg

    BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! WAA, WAAA. SPANKED BY THE NO 1 FUCKING RETARD!

  88. 88 kokanaden 174 comments

    @Captain Obvious Highlights? Game? VCR? In any case, of course the puberty fairy didn’t visit me; I was grown up the moment I was born. You needed a puberty fairy to help you grow physically? Oww so sad.

    And tell me, what’s wrong with him poking fun at fansubbers? (or is he, in the first place?) I’m eagerly awaiting more examples of speedsubbers apart from Dattebayo.

  89. 89 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    More speedsubbers?

    narutobuzz
    BS (Bullet Speed Subs)

    And more. I don’t remember the subgroups names, all of them, but there ARE more. Gundam seed destiny had speedsubs. Most popular series do. Why do you need more examples, anyway? With every example your arguements look increasingly diluted. CRY HARDER.

    So your mom must have, like, the hugest womb ever. I was imagining the scene in Lord Of the Rings, where the orcs emerge from the sacs all sticky and hideous and shit. And then, i lol’d.

  90. 90 kokanaden 174 comments

    @Captain Obvious Wow, thanks you just made my point earlier. “Many”? You managed to list 3, including Dattebayo; 4 if I include the GSD example. And this number compared to the total number of subs available? I’m very sorry if I overestimated your ability to do math, but the average release rate is closer towards 1 week, rather than the 3? 6? hours you quoted for Dattebayo.

    In any case, you jealous of my mum? I mean, I pity you actually; I guess I know the reason why you’re such a fucktard: Your mum’s womb did not contain any amniotic fluid while you were in there. No wonder you envy people like me, who emerge sticky, and possibly hideous; but grown-up and smart, unlike you. Don’t be jealous, I totally sympathise with you. Ahh… which explains why you laughed out loud too. I can’t really blame ignorance, can’t I?

    On a more serious note, either you’re really fucking retarded not to see/feel the sarcasm in the post, or you’re just fucking retarded. And oh, just to mention it, if you’re still revelling in that “brilliant” piece of argument: Doesn’t mean one argues against another’s criticism of the actions/words/thoughts of a third party means he/she condones/agrees with the action/words/thoughts of the third party? Too difficult for you to understand? Too bad.

  91. 91 useract75 11 comments

    Awright ceasefire everyone. Read this!

    http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest+News/Courts+and+Crime/STIStory_151108.html

    Surprise surprise. Pacnet wins for now. Don’t set off the fireworks yet though, the enemy may appeal.

  92. 92 dKiWi 33 comments

    PACNET BANZAI!!!

  93. 93 Leon 3 comments

    Simply put:

    Yes to Odex’s Vision
    No to Odex’s way of doing things

  94. 94 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Lol. You have never downloaded any anime before, have you? The longest the average fan can go without whining is one week. Speedsubbers are rare, but do you know the average speed of a fansub release? Go to a torrent website and find out. You say i’m retarded, yet you don’t research your arguments.

    Most fansubs come out in a day or two. Which is infinitely faster than what Odex has now.

    My response to your second paragraph is a simple “lol”

    Lol. I get what you are saying in your third paragraph. You actually agree with me! Glad to have you aboard. ;)
    I read the Pacnet article earlier, people on HWZ were talking about it. Pacfags have it good :)

  95. 95 kokanaden 174 comments

    @Captain Obvious Dude, the only thing I totally agree with you is that fansubs are infinitely (or almost there) faster than Odex. As for the rest, I’d quote the infamous LianYL “It’s like pulling figures from out of your ass”, and well, the only reasonable way to test that is to manually calculate the rate of releases of ALL anime by ALL fansubs available, and I’m not that free to do that. Or perhaps you might be?

  96. 96 LianYL 452 comments

    So I guess Captain Obvious sort of went bankai because tjhan interviewed Peter.

    It’s hard to proclaim one as neutral due to the number of loudhailing bigots online. It’s either you nitpick on the small details with angry mob or you get flamed for looking at the bigger picture. There is no fence to speak of as the mob constantly fires artillery rounds on it. Objective people are accused of being an enemy because the subjective is pinpointed as being subjective. What a stupid way of understanding things.

    It’s hard to argue when one side has in possession knowledge and information that the other doesn’t.

  97. 97 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Looking at all of the titles that i can’t watch would only further depress me. It is common knowledge fansubs are faster than Odex subs. And with better translations. Aaand with better picture quality. And more.

  98. 98 Orochi 26 comments

    @tjhan :-

    Excuse me, but you have been evading my queries all day now on why the scene in Hong Kong and Taiwan happens to be worse off than us when we have both the MDA and Odex at work ? It’s clear as day that they have it better.

    Perhaps you can ignore the…..”Obvious” and answer the question at hand ?

  99. 99 Musa 32 comments

    Seriously, does it matter if you know about the situation in Hong Kong and Taiwan? Will it help us Singaporeans at all? I don’t mean to criticize, but one government is being handfed by another which excels in making baby powder out of tar (or whatever shit that looks white) while the other is made up of semi-retired mud wrestlers that go ballistic whenever the spot light falls on them. Of course the leeches there have it better than the ones over here.

  100. 100 tj_han 896 comments

    Orochi: Oh I didn’t see your response lol. Too many comments, some retarded and eyecatching.

    To answer your query, with what Peter Goh said, it’s basically because sales in HK and Taiwan, of legal anime dvds are poor and becoming worse. There is also increasing merchandise piracy as well. There may be a vibrant anime culture but it is not one which “gives back”. You could say it’s like a colony of large parasites. To give an analogy, if you had 100000 aphids on a plant, it is not considered a healthy plant isn’t it? Even if there is a vibrant ecosystem there for other bugs like ladybirds and praying mantises.

    Musa!! Tar is NOT WHITE!

  101. 101 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Useract why never finish your story. I was about to contact Bloomsbury books, you’ll need a publisher for such an epic tale.

  102. 102 alafista 26 comments

    I would say that the vision is really pretty … but way too impossible. The singapore market will never achieve that critical mass.

    How many of anime fans in Singapore actually spend really good money or can even afford to buy figurines, manga, merchandise, magazines? As much as I might try, the best I would spend a month is around $150. Minus off about 100 bucks for figurines. I’m only left with 50 for newtype, manga and my ost cds. Which means I also seldom buy DVDs. Even if i do buy DVDs, I’m always worrying whether the stupid censor people would confiscate them or damage my dvds.

    I do totally agree that any form of piracy is wrong but I also think that it would be impossible to kill off online sharing. As long as there are PCs, electricity and geeks around, the technology will always adapt for people to invent new ways of file-sharing protocols.

  103. 103 Ascaloth 67 comments

    TJ, you may not realize that your analogy of the aphid-infested plant has a double meaning. ODEX is the ladybird, while we’re the aphids. :p

  104. 104 Buster-kun 1 comment

    I see a got a pingback here.. so I guess I’ll comment. I probably don’t understand all of the odex story down to pieces, as I am an Israeli that never had any connection to Singapore except for these blogs. Putting that aside, reading all about the Youth Park bonfire or whatever or stories of pepole who got “The Letter”, I got all gong-ho about it, fully willing to support the rebellion in whatever way I could do from here.

    This post has gotten me down to earth, and I started thinking rather then Oooo’ing.
    It would seem that each side, both Odex and the downloaders forgot that they are dealing with humans. Downloaders see the corporate trying to take over them, and Odex.. I don’t know what the hell were they thinking, to sue the customers.

    I also looks to me that this post could be the begining of the “peace”, or whatever. The end of the Odex thing, anyway.

    IMO, instead of burning old tapes, you could arrange a group of representitives that will sit with some Odex reps, with Peter Go included as he seems to be a person with his head on his shoulders, at one table and some cups of coffee and settle the matter like pepole.

    My 2 cents.

  105. 105 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    WHAT DO YOU MEAN DOES IT MATTER OR NOT IN HONG KONG AND TAIWAN!? THESE ARE SERIOUS ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY. I CANNOT STAND THE THOUGHT OF A HONG KONG OTAKU EATING SMELLY TOFU AND ENJOYING ANIME.

    WHITE TAR IS WHITE?! SENSELESS ANALOGY! FAIL HARDER. YOU FAIL AS HARD AS A SQUARE STRAWBERRY ROLLING DOWN AN UPHILL SLOPE!

  106. 106 Ascaloth 67 comments

    …..”Obvious”man’s lost it.

  107. 107 Musa 32 comments

    Lol, of course Tar isn’t white, why do you think I used that for example?

  108. 108 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    >excels in making baby powder out of tar (or whatever shit that looks white)
    >(or whatever shit that looks white)
    >shit that looks white

    SHIT IS NOT WHITE!!! MY 5 YEAR OLD COUSIN COULD TELL YOU THAT! ZOMG WHAT ARE YOU, FOUR YEARS-OLD?!

  109. 109 useract75 11 comments

    @Cpt Obvious: good things come to those who wait. My saga’s still not quite finished yet. Or you can volunteer to continue it later, then we share-share da royalties.

    Bloomsbury’s an excellent choice by da way - I fully support ya. :)

  110. 110 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    Excellent. I think the ending should be a twist even m night shyamalan wont see coming. The italians appear out of nowhere, give us spaghetti.

    I think our book just might out-sell the Bible.

  111. 111 Tiny Red Man 86 comments

    great..pacnet won the case… :P

  112. 112 Silverwolf X

    Pacnet’s win is temporary. Someone should give them more legal help and ways to counter ODEX should those losers choose to appeal within the next 14 days.

  113. 113 Musa 32 comments

    >SHIT IS NOT WHITE!!! MY 5 YEAR OLD COUSIN COULD TELL YOU THAT! ZOMG WHAT ARE YOU, FOUR YEARS-OLD?!

    HOLY SHIT OMFG!! I AM IN FACT THREE YEARS OLD!!! WHAT ARE U? SOME KIND OF SUPER PSYCHIC??

    My daddy tells me that shit comes in 7 colours!! There’s pink shit, there’s blue shit, there’s even rainbow colored shit! Please Capt Obvious! You gotta go tell my dad the truth what shit really is!!

    Why the other day, I saw this little birdie that shat on top of Daddy’s car, it looked white with some brown sauce in it! That means it’s not shit!! Because there’s white in it!! Capt Obvious!! You gotta help me!!!

  114. 114 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    SUPER PSYCHIC??? TRY HYPER PSYCHIC!!!

    Your Dad is wrong! Don’t listen to Daddy, listen to Captain Obvious! I mean, DAMN, I’m a FREAKIN’ CAPTAIN! Every single kind of captain! Army captain, sea captain, and even a pilot!

    Rainbow-colored shit!? THAT IS WHAT YOU GET FOR EATING RAINBOW PADDLE POP! ISN’T IT OBVIOUS?!?!

    THAT WHITE PART ISN’T SHIT! THAT IS THE “PRECIPITATE” OF THE BIRD’S FART. THE BIRD’S FART SOLIDIFIES THE WATER VAPOUR IN THE AIR, WHICH PHOTOSYNTHESZES WITH THE MENISCUS OF THE FART AND PRODUCES THE OFF-WHITE COLOUR! SINCE YOU ARE 3 YEARS-OLD YOU WON’T KNOW THIS, BUT THIS IS IN FACT COMMON SENSE TO ANYONE WHO STUDIED PRIMARY FOUR SCIENCE!

  115. 115 Erwin 23 comments

    I think there are many levelheaded “common” anime viewers; being moderate, looking out for good quality at reasonable prices and usually “graduating from anime” eventually once real life catches up. As is said a few times here, this sort of “fan” is the critical mass that produces large revenues. “Real fans” make up a small portion in any sort of market, other examples being pay-per-view boxing and the music industry.

    With the latter as an example, how did Apple (a computer company) take a major share of music retail? Because instead of litigious action (like the record companies and Odex), they engineered a consumer-friendly platform to “get the goods to the people” at good quality and at very “logical” and reasonable prices.

    Furthermore, Mr. Go’s vision is a view I find to be strangely “Singaporean”: total control, maximum repression, and big dreams. Sounds a bit like Mr. Lee Kuan Yew to me, although of course on totally different levels (Living in Europe, I have the utmost admiration for Mr. Lee Kuan Yew’s accomplishments). Singapore, or any other overseas market, will not likely become an anime “heaven” as is envisioned, simply because Japanese don’t care about the overseas markets. They cater to their domestic market first, and do some foreign stuff on the side, preferably America (cfr. asosdan Haruhi viral).

    Also, I find the notion of an anime utopia to be..strangely dystopian. What’s so great about being a consumer lapdog to a foreign product?

  116. 116 Musa 32 comments

    WOOT! YOU ARE MY HERO CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!! ONLY AFTER OBVIOUS MAN!!!

  117. 117 Beowulf 8 comments

    The HK, Taiwan examples are relevant because Peter Go is using the situations in those countries to justify his belief and argument that piracy is a major evil that needs to be eradicated.

    Seriously, I think he needs to lay off the WEED for a while. A lesson in MKT101 would be useful to him as well.

    I also think his definition of an anime fan marginalises those who do not have the $$$ to engage in the hobby even if they have the “potential” to do so later. I started watching anime at 8 but only bought my 1st official anime DVD when I’m 21, so I disagree with him.

  118. 118 loltechnos 11 comments

    “I also think his definition of an anime fan marginalises those who do not have the $$$ to engage in the hobby even if they have the “potential” to do so later. I started watching anime at 8 but only bought my 1st official anime DVD when I’m 21, so I disagree with him.”

    Total agreement there! I think this in fact makes up a good portion of the anime-buying market - students. Teenagers, not all of whom have oodles of money like certain illusions of lesser light. The problem is the usual one of how to separate those who don’t buy but certainly will later, and those who don’t buy and never will (just getting it ‘cos it’s free). Perhaps one way is to offer cheap streaming anime and see if they will buy it or not… but then again, it just doesn’t make sense when there’s fansubs coming out faster. ODEX and whoever is Up There would have to *trust* that when some of us say “yes, we’ll buy this when we have the money”, we actually WILL. Of course if their definition of this is buy = buy ODEX products, then they wouldn’t see anything…

  119. 119 useract75 11 comments

    Just curious, does anyone know if any of Makoto Shinkai’s work is being odexified? (Note: these days, odexified = getting screwed)

  120. 120 naive 6 comments

    good news, pacnet won the case against odex yesterday.
    although odex have 2 weeks to appeal to the court ruling.

  121. 121 NovaJinx 5 comments

    Interesting vision, that’s true. Unfortunately these words are coming from a businessman. In businessworld such things as ideology, morality or vision do not have the same meaning and/or significance as most people think. Business is ran by capital, and capital has nothing to do with these great sounding terms. The goal of every entrepreneur, whether he admits it or not, is achieving a complete dominance over the market his company is on and anime distribution companies are no exception.
    In the case of ODEX piracy is standing in the way to this status. I don’t know much about Singaporean anime market, but it seems that ODEX is pretty much the only company in business there. When a company has no competitors, it has achieved a state called monopoly - without competing firms it can move at its own pace and only things limiting its growth to the State of Absolute Dominance are its budget and human resources.
    One of the most crucial things in conquering a market - and often the MOST important - is effective distribution. Many products and companies fail because they simply do not have the chance or - like in the case of no competition - capacity to spread themselves far and wide and conquer themselves space on the shelves of retailers. Another important factor which requires a large amount of capital is marketing - to make people aware of the company and its products.
    But there’s a bunch of factors - something that siphon so much resources and time that vast majority of companies try to keep as minimal as possible. This bunch is the dreaded maintaining and improving product quality and R&D. As much as companies hate these, they are essential to maintain the company’s market status and advantage over competitors.
    So how does this relate to the topic at hand? When a company has no notable competitors, it can throw R&D and quality improvement out of the window. Capital keeps flowing as usual, since there’s only one stream to flow in. From a consumer’s point of view a single company dominating a market is NEVAR a good thing, but from a company’s point of view it’s the Perfect Status, Shangri-la, Heaven, utopia…truly the Vision of Odexflowne.
    Companies use whatever means they have to remove any obstacles in their way to this status - which is difficult when dealing with other companies that play by the rules set by legistlation - but getting rid of illegal business such as fansubs is much more straightforward. By writing and giving out Grand Speeches with sugar coating it’s easy to turn the opinion of the common folk and governmental authorities on one’s side - after which the rest is easy - sue away and watch the money roll in while the last form of competition is being dissolved and the path to Absolute Market Dominance is opening - to a state in which people will gladly march in the stores and buy whatever is released.
    Don’t get me wrong - I don’t really hate ODEX for what they are doing - I’d probably be doing the exactly same thing if I was in their shoes. But don’t take their Grand Visions seriously - trusting in the sugary word of a businessman is one of most naïve things one can do.

  122. 122 naive 6 comments

    that’s the problem every nearly monopolistic business environment suffer from.
    From the viewpoint of economics, monopolistic behaviour/environment:
    1. stifles creativity
    2. discourages competition, in terms of product/service quality, variety, pricing, etc
    3. suffers from inefficiency

    how can one expect odex to be more competitive in quality, pricing, packaging if there are no other companies challenging it head-on?
    so in my opinion, the grand vision peter spouted is bullshit.
    whether or not odex gets what it wants, status quo will most likely be maintained. that ultimately spells doom for anime community wishing to flourish.

  123. 123 Elydis 30 comments

    AYA HIRANO IN SINGAPORE OMFGPWNZSAUCE

    Pardon my outcry, odex’s vision is indeed wonderful no? Tsu will probably be the Captain of the Hirano fan club(Shinpachi-Kun?) and i will be one of the members. But then visions are just a bid to rally the masses is it not? Religion does the same thing, that aside.

    Novajinx has mentioned some extremely good points. No matter how beautifull crafted the words are of odex it is still doing it for self-preservation. It is a buisness after all. However I do not see much diffrence between odex and the odex haters. The odex haters go around saying that odex will destroy the anime community blah blah blah, but i doubt they even care about the anime community. The only reason they attack odex is because they want to preserve their free download lifestyle. To achieve this they form a pseudo crusade againt the oppressor of animes. Odex is out to make money but odex haters? Save money of course yet those denizens of hate claim they spend money on other merchandises? So…what is the problem here? Just switch your budget to dvds instead.

    Well congratulations odex haters! You just become the polar opposite of odex but still essentially the same piece of crap. I bet you guys can keep on and on and on and on complaining and complaining. It is thanks to you guys that this few post is so commented on, you guys are just paraphrasing the same shit over and over again. Those are the kind of people who can never grow up, never move on. There is no point fighting a system you cant beat, work around the system find other ways to get your animes, if you are a fan you will find ways no matter the cost. I welcome abuses from odex haters cause it will only prove im right. You can never improve with your limited worldview, just like Odex’s sub.

    NOT FOR RELIGIOUS BIGOTS AND CLOSE MINDED PEOPLE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBAPbOWLxc

  124. 124 rOninZz 14 comments

    I’m not majoring in economics, however I do feel from a personal standpoint, I feel that this crackdown is stifling Singapore’s Anime Community.

    “The central belief Peter holds is that an anime fan is one who gives back as much as he takes from the anime industry.”

    It is my belief that the popularity of japanese animation in Singapore is largely due to the widespread availability of fansubs. Odex has claimed that this availability has cost their sales to drop 50% in a certain year. Fansubs may have contributed to this drop, however without fansubs, most “fans” of these shows would not even consider buying the vcds/dvds as they would have never watched/heard of these shows in the first place. How can one become a fan of a show, have enough interest to be willing to spend his own money to purchase dvds/vcds, when there is little or no advertising available to promote the product? When if you considering the casual anime/tv serial consumer, I doubt many will actually pick up an unknown series (especially with the amazing silver packaging) when he has little or no knowledge on it.

    “A free-loading downloader is not an anime fan. Animators in Japan slog for peanuts, because of their love for anime, bringing us the shows we enjoy. Watching it legally on TV in Japan and even here helps them, for it increases ad revenue. Buying DVDs, merchandise and others also help them. But downloading for free does not return anything to the industry and this is a form of theft, according to Peter.”

    In Japan, anime is shown on TV/Cable etc, I do believe that the Japanese people mainly buy dvds and vcds after having watched the show via these media, or found recommendations from friends/reviews of people (who in turn have already watched the show). The same trend can be seen in drama/tv serials all over the world. I of course do not have evidence to back this up, this is all based on what I myself & friends have been noticing and I could likely be grossly mistaken.

    Anime broadcasts on Singapore TV is (IMO) very scarce. Even the shows they broadcast are outdated and some are dubbed (voice over) versions. Dubbed versions (especially the ones shown in Singapore which I have seen or tried to watch and then prompted changed channel) are poorer versions with less effective voice actors.
    Odex has licensed many of the recent animes like Code Geass & Haruhi, it was mainly though fansubs that the popularity of these shows have spread all the way to Singapore. Without fansubs, how would the promotion of these shows occur? Odex does not have any significant advertising (@ least that I know of) and their website has been offline for more than half a year. I do not even know if Odex is planning to release any of the fore mentioned titles.

    All of these “freeloaders” which Odex has termed them, probably do recommend animes to friends, brining more and more people into the anime community. The main form of this advertising is indeed fansubs. Of course I do not condone downloading licensed anime, as the distributor has invested capital into the licences. However, I do find the fact that Odex deems fansubs only as “a form of theft” slightly appalling considering its probably the main form of advertising they have in Singapore. If you want to consider the TV broadcasts highlighted in the previous paragraphs… how many of you have actually bought dvds/vcds based on shows you have watched on Tv compared to those you have watched using fansubs? The only 2 that come to mind for former to me are Kenshin and Ah Megami Sama, both watched on the AXN Network.

    “The days of fansubs being promotion material are long gone. Nowadays, they are more harm than good, people are not buying DVDs because they already have obtained the shows via illegal downloads”

    In fact I believe that most of the anime community in Singapore can be considered casual anime fans and not the ‘hardcore’ type which will actually make the effort to buy dvds for all the shows they have watched. Not every single person who watches “24″ on TV will make the effort to buy the dvds after the series. Of course comparing Tv boardcasts to fansubs is probably not a good idea, fansubs being ‘illegal’ in Singapore Laws if Odex is correct in their assessment. However I like to state again that there are no other significant forms of advertising for current anime (which are licensed by Odex). Does Mr Go really believe that he will have a customer base for say Code Geass dvds if he releases the product this month without any advertising (which is what they have been doing for years) and without fansubs available?

    Anyways gotta go back to klasses now.

  125. 125 Musa 32 comments

    @Elydis: You are just adding a new link to the endless cycle with your own comments. Odex, Odex-haters, Odex-haters haters, other haters haters etc.

    Please give something constructive, thanks. It’s obvious I belong to one of those people and I don’t deny it, neither do I admit that I have a solution. So if you’re that open-minded and clever, say something fundamentally different from everyone here which actually tackles the problem at hand. If not, you’re just the same as everyone else, criticizing others.

  126. 126 Elydis 30 comments

    @Musa
    Yes i admit that my points are inevitably bias but all arguments are. No one can be tuly fair. Call it tough love, i do not believe in sugar coating my words when i can just hurl in it your face. Shock facotr. It will offend somepeople but i dun care, at least they start thinking. ‘How can i prove him wrong? How can i retort his statement?’ But of course even i take my comments with a pinch of salt. But most importantly what is the problem you wish me to tackle? The Odex suing people or the angry mobs? Prehaps the term odex hater is not properly defined.

    Odex Haters- Someone who goes on forums and swear and curse at odex/ People who threaten to kill Odex personnel because they cant ILLEGALY download anime.

    I am pointing out that what they do is pointless and a waste of time like you are pointing out to me that i am wasting my time and falling into the same trap i pointed out and i thank you musa. It is like the knight who slain the demon who in turn became the demon. But to clarify i do not hate odex haters but rather their meaningless actions.

  127. 127 Charles 15 comments

    On another note:

    http://sgcafe.com/showthread.php?t=36820

    I think it’s quite interesting, now Gonzo and SUnrise have taken an interest in us. What a change of affairs… maybe anime industries will have a better udnerstanding of the region.

  128. 128 Musa 32 comments

    Bah, reading the 2ch link there is a waste of time. The Japanese there are posting jokes about it. i.e. “Woohoo, let’s kill em all! Hey why aren’t the government officials arresting them?” etc.

  129. 129 useract75 11 comments

    Actually musa, that guy was saying “kill all the uploaders”. And one of the followups responded, “it wasn’t just the uploaders, even the people who watched?”.

  130. 130 myst 2 comments

    Pacnet wins lawsuit against Odex. Hmm. Good or bad? Decide for yourself

    Link below:

    http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest+News/Courts+and+Crime/STIStory_151108.html?vgnmr=1

  131. 131 rOninZz 14 comments

    SingNet consented, StarHub had other arguments
    http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest+News/Courts+and+Crime/STIStory_151420.html
    Wa pengz, it seems that Singnet actually consented to Odex’s requests, no objections made. Goes to show how well much they value their consumers privacy….

    Odex-PacNet ruling may set online privacy precedent
    http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest+News/Courts+and+Crime/STIStory_151426.html

    Well we will see the full details tml in ST.

  132. 132 Ascaloth 67 comments

    Well yes, you have a point Elydis…..but they’re essentially the same points that have already been espoused by higher-profile personalities like TJ and Impz. And if the HWZ n00bs don’t listen to them and continue to flame likewise, what makes you think they’ll listen to you? :p

  133. 133 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    higher profile personalities? lol wut. Xia xue is a bigger personality than the two of them put together!

  134. 134 myst 2 comments

    As quote from ” http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest News/Courts and Crime/STIStory_151426.html ”

    [Odex, said Judge Lau, failed on two counts.

    Only copyright owners - that is, the studios that made the anime - or an ‘exclusive licensee’ for the anime being downloaded, can take legal action under the Singapore Copyright Act.

    Odex is a sub-licensee and had letters from rights owners authorising it to take action on their behalf, but the firm was neither a copyright owner or an ‘exclusive licensee’.

    An exclusive licensee has the sole right to distribute a product in a certain market.

    Judge Lau added that he was not wholly satisfied with Odex’s explanation of how it identified the downloaders.]

    Going by what is mentioned above, looks like Odex shot themselves in the foot by doing the enforcement themselves instead of going thru the “proper” actions which is getting the main owners - the Japanese anime companies to press lawsuits.

    Hope they do not over-turn the ruling given its validity of reasons in protecting consumers against such “unproper” methods of handling copyright issues as demostrated by Odex.

  135. 135 naive 6 comments

    To my understanding, certain people’s comments seem are too generalised; they seem to imply that there are only two opposites: odex supporters and odex haters.
    Are odex haters all freeloaders? are odex supporters all buy complete dvds and merchandises?
    If you follow such line of reasoning, then you are narrow-minded and absolutely naive.

    As roninZz pointed above, anime distribution is a problem in singapore; if fansubs and file sharing technology never existed, do you think anime community will ever thrive?
    Of course, it will develop - one way or another - but obviously not at such dizzying rate without the help of internet. The domestic anime community is in its infancy. Penetration of anime in the local media is much restricted (don’t even mention mature themed anime like black lagoon or ecchi ones, considering existence of stone age MDA & BoFC). It will never acquire status like in japan or US.

    Times have changed, ditto business models. You can’t expect to succeed in today’s competitive business climate by relying on old, obsolete business practices.
    Okay, maybe odex can get away with its current “sue happy” practice, but for how long?
    Just like nature, in which human continuously develop antibiotics to eliminate strains of bacteria, and bacteria constantly evolving to develop resistance towards the newer drugs.
    It’s the same in odex case; odex clamping down on downloaders, and downloaders working on circumventing the law and get to watch free anime.
    It’s an endless cycle, with no absolute winners or losers.

    “Why should we the ones to provide solutions?,” you ask. Maybe we shouldn’t think too much into it!
    Let others who knows their stuff handle it.
    Besides, that’s why we pay our government and ministers so ludicrously huge.

  136. 136 pantY thieF 2 comments

    It doesn’t matter whoever sues, whether it’s odex, bluemax or old chang kee.
    IF the japanese companies owning the copyrights of individual animes were to press on and take downloaders on court, all of us will surely be finished!

    imagine if they have all the necessary files and team of lawyers to pursue the case, then there would be thousands of court orders across singapore, try to picture scenes of policemen raiding hdb flats for physical evidence of illegal possession of anime material. (Not to mention your illegal porn stash too!)

    now that’s news…

  137. 137 gaaa 3 comments

    bullshit. do not be cheated by him. he wants you to purchase from his filthy odex. the vision is a mere dream that will never become reality. DOWNNN :D WITH :D ODEX~!

  138. 138 rOninZz 14 comments

    @naive
    “Are odex haters all freeloaders? are odex supporters all buy complete dvds and merchandises? If you follow such line of reasoning, then you are narrow-minded and absolutely naive.”

    Very true, unfortunately I do notice the majority of Odex ‘Haters’ - @ least those who most on certain forums, are in fact individuals who probably do only download fansubs and would never ever consider spending $$$ on anime. - The type who would spout passing 1 liner comments like “Odex sux!” etc. Those individuals who stubbornly think its their right to download licensed anime for free without any sort of contribution back to the anime industry. The type of mentality which actually helps support Mr Go’s claims stated in this article.

    On the other hand, in posts made by most of the Odex “Supporters” I have seen in online forums, never have I seen any of them making arguments based on they themselves buying Odex products and then condemning freeloaders. The general trend of thought is always “fansubs are illegal, copyright infringement, dont watch anime” They do not consider the situation from an anime fan’s perspective. Which most people tend to forget are Odex’s very own consumer base…..

    Regarding anime distribution in Singapore, our small population just is not able to support a significant consumer base - “It will never acquire status like in Japan or US.” You don’t even need to factor need censorship I think although it goes to show how many obstacles there are in the way of growth.

    Unlike Mr Go, who thinks that this crackdown will benefit the community, I believe (guess along with many others) irreparable damage has already been done. This whole fiasco only served to further alienate Odex from the anime community. The image Odex is giving out to the anime / and online community in general is very negative. A company with bad products and poor quality control trying to sue all downloaders as a last gasp attempt to ‘milk’ out what they can from the anime community as their sales have already reached rock bottom and it as a company does not have the know how to revamp its own failed business model - Mr Sing’s infamous comments just pouring more oil on the already huge flames, making this fiasco all the more complicated.

    In the end, the rift will probably never heal. In the first place, the community never did trust/support ODEX as their product quality was horrendous to begin with. Thus in turn attributing to the ‘poor sales’ which according to ODEX was 1 of the key reason for starting their heavy handed actions.

    All the attention now is on Odex vs Pacnet or whether Odex will fail in its crackdown. Its now about whether people can save their own skins (from the dreaded letter) and how they can strike back @ Odex for using apparently “underhanded” methods as some people have put it. I think the focus is now on consumer privacy and how to pick @ the flaws in Odex’s methods. I don’t think many individuals are still viewing the impact this whole issue will have on the future of Singapore’s Anime Community as their main concern.

    Many people have discussed what will happen if Odex gets it way but what if Odex does lose and gets counter sued etc etc, and the company folds what then? Will another company dare become a local distributor in Singapore after this whole fiasco? Will anime still be available in dvds/vcds locally or will imports be the only source of anime (not that many actually buy from Odex anwayys)? Even if it does not fold but is unable to continue its crackdown, then what about fansubs - will they still be considered illegal? - If so who will enforce this and how?

    @naive you stated that “It’s an endless cycle, with no absolute winners or losers.”
    but I think it sounds more like a lose lose situation to me. :(

  139. 139 useract75 11 comments

    @roninzz: I disagree with your opinion of anime fans. While there are freeloaders, there are also many who would be happy to purchase quality releases. Look at how local artistes like JJ Lin, Stefaine Sun, Jack Neo, have made themselves top of the Singaporean entertainment industry, although their work is frequently pirated. What fans want is quality releases (because they’re spoiled by fansubs) - the kind of quality that odex simply cannot live up to.

  140. 140 useract75 11 comments

    Next, I’d urge everyone not to be too happy yet. This is what I posted in DM’s blog:

    (Part 1)
    If you’ve read today’s Straits Times, you’d realize that

    (a) the ruling is unprecedented;
    (b) lawyers were _very_ surprised at Judge Lau’s decision;
    (c) a “refused to be named” lawyer remarked that it would mean the plaintiff had to prove that it had a high chance of winning even before obtaining the IP, and NMP Siew Kum Hong said this could be extremely expensive for firms .

    The above two lawyers could be quoted out of context, but it is clear as crystal that the ST’s slant on this issue is very strongly biased towards Odex. In any case, this gives me the impression that Judge Lau is being very very brave by going against conventional law wisdom and upholding internet subscribers’ privacy. The next judge may or may not be so avant-garde, so who knows how it could turn out.

    (Part 2)
    On the other hand, TNP is much more balanced. Here’s Mr Siew Kum Hong’s quote on the ruling (verbatim):

    “Very often, including in the media, there is insufficient recognition of people’s rights, or even the rights of the infringers. The judge put in a lot of effort and took pains to consider that.”

    As I suspected, Mr Siew’s quote in Straits Times was indeed taken out of context. Of more importance (unmentioned prior to this) is the following note regarding BayTSP:

    (a) there was no evidence from BayTSP against the said infringers;
    (b) there was no evidence that Odex engaged BayTSP;
    (c) only publicly available articles from BayTSP were presented (including FAQ).

    Am I the only one who’s feeling extremely uncomfortable that subscribers’ details are being released so easily, and based on so little incriminating evidence (as in the Singnet / Starhub case)?

  141. 141 Captain Obvious 19 comments

    (o.o)y

  142. 142 More lies from Odex 1 comment

    http://www.todayonline.com/articles/207450.asp

    ANIME distributor Odex had “no right of civil action” against illegal downloaders because it was just a sub-licensee — not the copyright owner or exclusive licensee — for most of the anime titles sold here.
    .
    Odex appeared to be the exclusive licensee for just one title, Mobile Suit Gundam Seed, the judge added.
    .
    .
    Noting that the firm was also in no position to initiate criminal prosecution, District Judge Earnest Lau — who on Thursday ordered Odex to pay legal costs of more than $7,000 — expressed unease over the hasty manner in which Odex tried to go after some 1,000 PacNet subscribers.
    .
    .
    But the judge said Odex director Peter Go — who filed the affidavit — had “no proof” that his firm had engaged the services of BayTSP in this matter, and neither did Bay-TSP give evidence in favour of Odex.

    So up to $5k compensation for investigation fees were again another big fat lie! Surely filing for court order to force ISP to reveal names and appeal don’t amount to a million dollars.

  143. 143 it's not zura, it's katsura! 2 comments

    Regarding the revealing IP address I can understand if it’s government who requested it. we can’t do anything without government’s consent anyway.
    but to actually allow a private company to coerce ISPs into revealing customer’s details, that’s some screwed up law we have here!
    how easy it is to exploit law into fulfilling private companies’ interests.

  144. 144 rOninZz 14 comments

    @useract75, of course I agree that there are anime fans in Singapore who are willing to spend money on dvds and vcds. However I do feel the majority of those making noise and who frequently post on online forums are individuals who would not be willing to buy vcds and dvds. The type which people identify as ‘odex’ haters. They are just trying to substantiate their right to download anime. Most Singapore Anime Fans who buy vcds and dvds through imports (and the very few who still buy Odex goods) I assume would also be against Odex’s actions but I dont think they make up a significant number compared to the former in online discussion. Which is why our newspapers unfortunately paint a bad picture of the common anime fan in Singapore.

    “Am I the only one who’s feeling extremely uncomfortable that subscribers’ details are being released so easily, and based on so little incriminating evidence (as in the Singnet / Starhub case)?”

    I think people are definitely pissed off by this, I know I am. (using 1 of the above mentioned ISPs)

  145. 145 rOninZz 14 comments

    “there are also many who would be happy to purchase quality releases.”

    Ah good point, like i mentioned earlier, I believe people tend to purchase dvds after having watched the show first and thus expecting a higher quality version of the show in their purchase. Who wants to buy a vcd “low quality version” which shoddy subtitles after have already watched the show.

  146. 146 yotsuba 2 comments

    Looks like someone put the “letter money” to good use and got a smart spindoctor for once, lol. (o.o)y

    Anyway, the end result from his grand vision is a absolute monopoly. DVDs for less than $10, more than DVDs for more than what the Japanese charges. If you’re the monopoly, you can very well charge what you want. And people don’t buy, very well sue the pants of them.

    I sincerely hope the Japanese companies aren’t behind this. Though I don’t buy ODEX (aside from Love Hina and Boys Be) in the past, god knows how much I have supported my favourite series by spending on figures, cels (yes, cels) and what not. Btw, doujinshi is also a form of copyright infringement, do start suing all the doujin circles please.

    The most ridiculous thing I have every heard was that Odex has done more for the anime scene in Singapore than any of us “freeloaders” or “anime lovers” ever will. What a overpresumptuous statement and baseless generalization. Odex promotes anime on tv, please, how much anime is there on free tv these days, not to mention on cable TV. The people that have done much for the community are the fans ourselves. I am ashamed to be linked to these two self-proclaimed anime otaku, who instead of cleaning up their own act, proceeds to blame all and sundry.

    Well, if you want to compare, I think Animax does more to promote anime that Odex ever will. I’m happy to pay $12 a month for legal anime that is 24/7, unlike Odex who seems to have the licenses to tons of the series (or was it gundam seed only) and never ever releases them. Engaging the fans, Odex? LOL, ever heard of Animax Awards? At least one company is putting its Japanese connections to good use.

    I do record animes legally (I’m paying for my Animax subscription) which is similar to what I do for any other tv series to watch them again. Did you say you were going to raid houses? :p
    I’m also weeping for the animators too, but for your actions. Not only are you killing their submaket of merchandising in singapore, you are ridiculing the trust, respect and tolerance (I can’t believe they are still working with you since the 1990s) they have placed unto you by butchering their high animation quality with subpar subtitles, shoddy packaging and this whole fiasco - which only serves to drag the perception and image of anime through the mud. Doesn’t help with all the lies upon lies upon lies.

    The worst victims are the misinformed teenage victims and their parents. Tripled 6-screwd. Not only did they have to cough up 3~5k via a thinly veiled threat in the letter (oh, which by the way does not seem to have a legal basis behind it *gasp*) , by signing the settlement letter with its clauses (it’s floating about on the net), it is an admission of their guilt to copyright infringement, which renders them to criminal prosecution under the copyright law. What a whammy. And apparently, “the next batch of letters are already prepared and ready to be sent out”.

  147. 147 Chris 4 comments

    I don’t know what that response to Captain’s first post was about and it’s pretty lame trying to offend people commenting. Maybe you don’t like his style or whatever but his points were anything but bullshit. Furthermore, if you actually claim
    “I repeat, it’s their story, I have fabricated or modified nothing.” you better make obvious (no pun intended) what’s yours and what isn’t. For example, is “while the silly Americans struggle with their week-old fansubs!” sarcasm you added, or did he say this literally. In any case, that was a pretty poor job of giving us an idea what Peter’s opinion is, especially for something who’s been a journalist.

  148. 148 kokanaden 174 comments

    @Chris Nothing wrong with the article, you’re just a lousy reader.

  149. 149 Chris 4 comments

    For what it’s worth, “especially for something” was of course meant to be read “especially for someone”. It was not an insult or something.

  150. 150 yotsuba 2 comments

    From: http://siewkumhong.blogspot.com/2007/08/odex-pte-ltd-v-pacific-internet-limited.html


    T.M. said…

    What I find more disturbing is the following excerpt from the notice they had published on the Straits Times:

    “Based on searches conducted over a 6-month period from November 2006 to April 2007 on 50 anime titles only using BayTSP’s tracking solution, Odex found that there were more than 400,000 instances of downloading in Singapore. Singapore was found to have the highest level of anime downloading in the world by population.”

    Yet, they have testified in Court that they were licensed to employ the tracking solution from “29 January 2007 to 6 May 2007″. Where does the truth lie?

    Yet even MORE contradictions. (o.o)y

    Try reading the judge’s written judgement. IMHO, Xedo’s case sounds flimsier by the minute.
    Go PacNet for standing up!

  151. 151 Trish 1 comment

    God, I was happily reading the comments until I reached Captain Obvious’ bullcrap.

    Christ, I’m almost ashamed that you are watching the same anime as I am. Because you obviously do not deserve them.

  152. 152 genm 1 comment

    I have only 1 thing to say. By doing so, Mr. Ho is effectively killing the Anime Community in SG. As the dust settles and every thing is over, we as consumers or in his mindset potential consumers would just simply swear off anime. The Gameing and Anime market did not Grow bigger but in fact it grew with us. Anime has always been there and we have always been watching. Back during the days of Doremon and such classics to the latest Bleach Naruto and others. The Community is not getting younger and we are all getting more and more busy with our RL. If getting that 20 mins of escape requires so much effort or money, I would rather sign up @ a gym and ‘whip’ myself into health.

    On the other Hand I do acknowledge that the downloading is a problem, BUT! there is so little choice of what we are getting from. It is human nature to fear change and such a huge jump is not healthy for all parties.

    My simple quote for this saga is as follows.

    We as consumers can swear off Anime.
    But they can eat s**** when we do so.

  153. 153 rOninZz 14 comments

    Since this is a Mr Peter Go Topic, how about some comments from 1 of his former freelance editors on the quality of Odex’s fantastic subtitling. I’m sure as Mr Go is an ardent Anime fan himself, he would naturally have good QC and not use pirated hongkong Dvds as for their own projects. I mean after all, “He wants to see a unique Singaporean anime culture, one which is totally free of piracy, illegal downloads and 100 percent friendly to the Japanese studios.”

    Well.. read for yourself. :)
    [Insert Epithet Here] Odex!
    http://ketsugi.com/panegyrist/insert-epithet-here-odex/

  154. 154 ty 5 comments

    In all the arguments, are there any solid figures? How were sales like before they fell? How are sales performing after the events? What is the sales target like? Without getting some of this feedback, are we expected to just believe blindly that emptying pockets is going to lead anywhere? Talk bout lack of transparency. Would be nice if there were some written proof that the Studios are taking spore seriously. Still, if VoD materialises might be interesting to see if it works.

  1. 1 You reap what you sow. « orz - SWISS CHEESE PORN
  2. 2 מפצח הגרעינים. » Blog Archive » קאפיטליזם סינגפוראי.
  3. 3 In Singapore anime buys you! « Jinx! - Ranty Bastard In the Land Of Opportunities
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